tstage (Tom) and selector both hit the nail on the head for me as well as other posters. I do apologize for my long previous post of how my interest evolved in this venture into DCC, but I wanted to be clear.
Like Tom said the EZ Command is what I chose to start, and for me it was the right decision. I understood long before my purchase of what I could do with it and adjusting cv's was not even part of my decision, after all I couldn't and didn't appreciate, nor even understand the ability to "tweak" DCC equipped loco's that ran better than anything I purchased and used back in the 50-70's right out of the box. and for those who are lurking, there is much comparison between Analog DC and DCC. First and foremost is wiring, you don't need all that block wiring and switch's, no matter if your using the least expensive system, EZ Command or an all out most expensive DCC infrared wireless system on the market.
EX Command is no comparison to DC, you can run 2 or 3 DCC loco's on the same line, each at different speeds, and going different directions, in other words if you want to stop one and back one into a siding, the other 2 can still continue on in their directions, can't do that with DC analog using one transformer or controller.
Selector is absolutely right on with the comment of this being the most civilized thread I've seen too on the comparison's. The slamming and downright arguments of who had the "best" DCC sytem when I started lurking here, almost 5 years ago, is why I wasn't even sure if I wanted to venture in DCC and it was confusing to sort it all out back then.
I normally don't remember this day, April 29, but I woke up this morning with a smile on my face, it's a special day for me, it's my birthday, never thought I'd reach age 65, but today I thanked God for the many gifts in my life, especially to be here and celebrating another Birthday ! Jim
Its the old proverbal coke/pepsi or Mcdonalds/Burger King argument. Which ever system you feel the most comfortable with--is the best for you. You might want to go onto Yahoo groups (their are users groups for NCE, MRC, Lenz and Digitrax and many others- tons of information there and easy and free to join).
Bachmann is fine for a beginner and you can easily find very affordable units out there even with the wireless unit Bachmann has improved. MRC Express can be expanded and if you like MRC, I would go with the MRC Prodigy Advaced 2, it can handle the layout you describe ( has enough amps) is very affordable $210 or so depending upon where you look. NCE is a fine system so is Digitrax all comparable in base price to others (basic units), I found Digitrax to have the most following of users but to me its alittle to techy and I dont care for their box like control units too. Most home layout owners I would bet dont run more than a few trains at a time maybe latch up 2-3 and maybe 1 other. I dont know to many home layout users running 7-10 trains by themselves. Some people never need to go beyond a basic unit ( maybe a booster for extra power).
RangeroverI normally don't remember this day, April 29, but I woke up this morning with a smile on my face, it's a special day for me, it's my birthday, never thought I'd reach age 65, but today I thanked God for the many gifts in my life, especially to be here and celebrating another Birthday ! Jim
, Jim! I just turned 50 earlier in the month and I don't feel much different than I did last year. (Actually, in some respects, I feel better. )
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Rangerover ...after all I couldn't and didn't appreciate, nor even understand the ability to "tweak" DCC equipped loco's that ran better than anything I purchased and used back in the 50-70's right out of the box.
...after all I couldn't and didn't appreciate, nor even understand the ability to "tweak" DCC equipped loco's that ran better than anything I purchased and used back in the 50-70's right out of the box.
That is my point. For the person about to experience DCC for the first time, he/she doesn't know what he doesn't know.
He lurks here and perhaps on some other forums and is overwhelmed by the descriptions of everything that people are doing, and intimidated by the occasional person who is having a problem. Often he reaches the conclusion that he will never want to do any of that, so he doesn't need all that sophistication.
EZ Command looks a lot like an improved version of the DC with which he is familiar. And for a while he is happy and believes he has saved money. Then he decides to run a 2 or 3 engine consist and finds that the only way to do that with EZ Command is to give all the engines the same address. But that means that his F3 AA set must both face the same direction. There is a CV that can reverse the normal direction on one of them, but EZ Command can't program CVs. They could be connected in any combination in a consist, but EZ Command can't assemble a consist. EZ Command can only run 9 addresses, so when his friend brings his new engine over to show it off, unless its address is between 1 and 9, (out of 9000 possible) it must be reprogrammed if you want to run it on the EZ Command layout. When he buys his 10th engine, he discovers that he must duplicate the address of one of the first 9 and then they can't both be on the layout at the same time. Etc.
It then requires him to go back to step one and buy the system he should have bought the first time.
With almost any other system, when you discover a need that your current system cannot handle, you need only purchase an add on to upgrade it. You never have to throw it out and start over.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
PS:
Happy Birthday!
Phoebe,
In my case, the NCE Power Cab wasn't available yet. Having bought my EZ Command for $53 and sold it a year later for $30, for a $23 investment; the experience was very good for me and I have no regrets. And the guy who bought the EZ Command from me used his for another 2+ years.
As I stated before, had I purchased full MSRP for my EZ Command ($100), I probably would have either waited for the Power Cab to come out, or gone ahead and bought a Digitrax Zephyr. However, I didn't have the money at the time. The purchase of the EZ Command and two decoders for my two locomotives was what I could afford.
But, I didn't buy the EZ Command primarily to SAVE money; I bought it to try out DCC. The year that I used my EZ Command allowed me to both experience DCC and figure out what I really wanted in my next DCC system. Limitations and all, the EZ Command showed me the advantages of DCC over DC and convinced me that I had made the right decision for going that route.
Again, the EZ Command isn't for everyone...but neither is every DCC system. The EZ Command met my needs at the time for the price range that worked in my budget. I could still enjoy operating my Toyota Tercel knowing that someday I would probably look at getting a Camry.
So, the maximum that I lost out on my year-long "experiment" was $23. Knowing that someone else was enjoying and benefiting from the continued use of my "discarded" system was an added bonus.
Phoebe Vet[For the person about to experience DCC for the first time, he/she doesn't know what he doesn't know.
Boy, that hits the nail on the head!
This is why we need to be so careful in advising those about to make their entry into DCC. We don't know what they don't know either. We don't know, and aren't entitled to know, their true financial situation. We don't know their technical abitlity. We don't know whether or not they want realistic, prototypical running of trains, or do they just want to rail fan a bit while they devote their attention to scenery. The "we don't know" list goes on and on. So until we get a little dialog going, we need to be careful about being too dogmatic in our recommendations.
I know I've been a bit strong in discouraging EZ Command from time to time. Maybe that's because about 7 years ago I started with an Atlas Commander DCC system. The Commander has about 10 times the capability of the EZ Command but I still soon found that it wasn't what I really needed. But, you know, I think finances do play a big part in our initial decision, especially when we don't know what we don't know. So, we often cautiously start with an inexpensive, limited system just to play it safe. and maybe that's just the smart thing to do.
Again, we can't really know a persons real needs or capabilities until a good dialog develops. And even then, we must be careful as it is none of our business as to some of the real reasons that drive a persons decision. All we can do is to try to give as much info about the subject as we can and not come on too strong. The last thing I want to do is talk someone into something that really may not be the best thing for that person.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
I agree entirely, PV. A person who doesn't know is very likely not even aware that there is more to know than what they think they need to know. A good steward of any system or organization should patiently expand the newcomer's awareness that he or she needs to accept that they must continue to generate yet more questions based on an intelligent appreciation of what they receive from others.
This has always been my position with the EZ-Command, even though I am sensitive to the pleasure and fond recollections of those who currently enjoy them, or who have moved on; the newcomer should be afforded an opportunity to appreciate/undrstand that DCC offers certain capabilities over the bulk of DC operations that the EZ-Command does not afford the user. CV adjusting is the big elephant in the room for me...that system is so restricted that it will never offer the user the full potential of his engine. So, the thing to do, for me, would be to ask the person if they understand what CV's are for, and that DCC systems are meant to allow their programming. Would they want a system that does that in a restricted fashion or would they want full control of their decoder?
Framing it that way places the onus squarely on the person receiving the "instruction", but it is a fair and comprehensive way to situate their problem of selecting a "good" match for them.
-Crandell
Crandell,
I would agree with you wholeheartedly. It's important with any newcomer - perhaps overwhelmed by the amount of info and choices with DCC - to tell them what the various options are - i.e. advantages and disadvantages - so that the buyer can make the best informed choice for them. The challenge is presenting the info in an accurate and constructive way, without appearing to slam or put down someone else's choice of a DCC system.
Yes, Tom, a thousand times, yes. We can explain and compare in a courteous way without lowering our zippers and peeing on the hydrant at the same time. My way or your stupid way...that kind of thing.
Then he decides to run a 2 or 3 engine consist and finds that the only way to do that with EZ Command is to give all the engines the same address. But that means that his F3 AA set must both face the same direction. There is a CV that can reverse the normal direction on one of them, but EZ Command can't program CVs. They could be connected in any combination in a consist, but EZ Command can't assemble a consist.
Phobe..this statement just isn't so. I have consists of 2 loco's one headed forward and one backward, and in fact have 2 headed forward and one backward in one consist of 3. Those of us who run Bachmann and followed the directions on the CD that comes with it know how to build a consist.
First of all I have a program track 4' long on my layout, completely isolated from any main line with a simple toggle switch I can turn off the mains and leave just the program track. I merely put the head loco on the track, program it to the ID #4 for example to go forward, remove it from the track, place the trailing loco backwards (cab to cab), program it to #4 reverse, place the head forward loco in front of the reversed trailing loco, connect and go. It's rather simple to consist with Bachmann. I do have one train with 3 loco's programed to run in consist with 2 headed forward and one backward.
It's still best to match up a pair of engines that run about the same speed with Bachmann EZ before attempting to consist.
But now I have the PR3 and JMRI program it doesn't really require speed matching, access to the speed table cv's with the JMRI program I can tweak the loco's to more closely matching speeds, great benefit for consists and I am therefore in much agreement with you on this point, but you can consist with EZ Command stand alone.
By the way thanks for the Happy Birthday! Jim
This is an excellent forum and there is lots of great advice. I was just checking Yahoo groups, and there is a group for Bachmann_DCC as there are groups for NCE, Digitrax, Lenz and MRC.
Go to Yahoo.com and go to there groups page and type in DCC, you will come up with many DCC groups. When I was learning about DCC I bought a Carstens book about DCC and joined a bunch of Yahoo groups, you do not have to post on any of them, you can just read or research questions. National model railroad assoc. NMRA also has good information too.