Today I just received my new Proto 2000 E8 A/B locos. Got a great deal on them from trainworld.com. The engines are 8-pin DCC ready. My questin is: what is a good DCC w/sound chip that fits this engine? I know space may be limited for the speaker. I've had Digitrax decoders installed in my other DC locos.
Thanks Jim
I have installed Soundtraxx LC decoders in three Proto 2000 E units. The space is there for speakers, but you might have to do some grinding on the weight, depending on what kind of speaker you use.
Jim, I have sounded P2K E6's, 7's and 8's, each differently. In my E8A, I used a 16 x 35 mm speaker with a Tsunami. Both are in the back. I mounted the speaker about 0.9 " from the inside back wall so that its front half would be under the rear-most fan. The speaker frame front corners needed to be trimmed slightly. This fan was removed and the fan cover glued in the rear position. The grating in the cover was drilled out with a #80.
The speaker is 7.5 mm thick, and a Tsunami will fit under it with its connector facing rearward if you: 1. remove the original diode board (not needed if you wire in the decoder); 2. put a thin piece of styrene sheet across the rear shelf of the weight to support the Tsunami and keep things away from the flywheel, and 3. glue the speaker directly to the roof without a baffle or gasket. Position the speaker carefully so its front edge doesn't hit the weight. I like tacky glue for this because it is easy to get a good seal. The entire shell works fine as a baffle if you make sure there are no leakage paths near the speaker. Result: a clean installation with only minor surgery. Not as loud as a BLI two-speaker diesel, but loud enough for my layout.
I also replace lightbulbs with LED's and 1000 ohm series resistors; less heat and longer life.
Hal
Thanks hal,
I'll look into this. Are the Tsunami considered good DCC chips? I've seen other postings here that say they are lower quaility and don't produce good sound. Will the sound scheme for this chip also give engine startup and shutdown sounds? This will be my first DCC sound attempt.
Thanks, Jim
Well if by "chips" you mean decoders, I haven't seen any negative comments on Tsumani decoders...in fact many people consider them to be the best out there. They are a little pricey, for the price of one Tsunami you could just about buy two Soundtraxx LC first-generation EMD sound decoders. The LC's are limited in options - you have a choice of three horns, the Tsunami has I think 16 - but give good EMD sound. If you're OK with the basics (engine sound, horn, bell, dynamic brakes) the LC would work for you.
In my A-B set of Proto E units I set the B unit up to face the A unit - that is, the area where the cab would be facing the back end of the A unit. Because the A and B units use the same chassis, there is a big open area where the cab and low nose would be. I put a sound decoder in the B unit with a 1" round speaker and enclosure in the big open area.
For me, that worked out OK since the two engines always run together. I'm sure you could put sound in the A unit with a speaker at the back, but you might need to use a smaller speaker, like a 1/2" by 1" oval or maybe a 3/4" round...though you might fit in a 1" with a little work.
I installed Soundtraxx DSD-100LC decoders in my Proto 2000 E8s. The original speakers were 3/4-inch mounted in the rear. Although adequate, I wanted better (louder) sound.
I damaged one of the locos by dropping it recently. During the repair process I decided to mount a larger speaker up front in the cab. By removing the back wall of the cabin there was plenty of room for a 1.1-inch speaker and enclosure. The improvement in sound production was dramatic!
Both of my A-units have a miniatronics 2-conductor plug built into the speaker circuit so they can be plugged into the dummy E7 B-unit, which has a 1.1-inch diameter speaker mounted in it. If I run just one A-unit or two together, I close the speaker circuit with a small "U" shaped plug. With both A-units on-line and the B-unit plugged into a speaker circuit, the sound is truely impressive.
Its true that the LC series of decoders is "limited", but they deliver good sound at a reasonable cost IMHO.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Doesn't the Proto 2K use an atlas like circuit board? The earlier ones used a square board at the rear of the loco. The later E-8's used an atlas style board if I remember correctly. I COULD BE WRONG. SO PLEASE CHECK FIRST.
I belive the QSI Revolution A (atlas version) is a drop in replecement for the factory board.
QSI is what Walthers uses for it's P2K's. I have one in mine, and am pleased with it. If you plan on purchasing a sound equipped version in the future, this might be the way to go.
There have been some reports of Diesel Tsunami's randomly taking off. This was reported in the earliest versions of the diesel tsunami only. I don't know if Soundtraxx took care of this or not.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Am I correct that the Soundtraxx DSD-100LC is both a sound and motion decoder, and that it has an 8-pin plug?
mreagantAm I correct that the Soundtraxx DSD-100LC is both a sound and motion decoder, and that it has an 8-pin plug?
You are correct. However the LC Series is several years old, and lacks several features:
1. It lacks a silent drive. Therefore it will buzz at lower speeds. It also has worse low speed control
2. It has no BEMF control for constant speeds
3. It will not work on DC layouts
4. Has 8 bit sound samples. (16 Bit is the norm today)
And here I thought the DSD-100LC was the way to go. I checked their web site and see where they list a DSD-101LC for 1st Gen EMC diesel. I guess this is the sound format of the DSD-100LC?
WHat about anything from Digitraxx?
stocksj WHat about anything from Digitraxx?
Digitrax's sound bug is regarded as inferior in most aspects. And it is a seperate sound piece which attaches to their motor decoders.
The 101/100 LC is the LOW COST OLDER version of soundtraxx's decoders. Hence why they are so cheap. The Tsunami TSU-1000 series is the one with all the modern features.
Your best bet is to look at either the Soundtraxx Tsunami (TSU-1000) decoder or wait until the QSI Revolution U is available(the shrink wrap version); it should be at a dealer near you in a couple of months (according to QSI).
The LC series decoders from Soundtraxx are old/outdated technology. Much more to gain from the Tsunami - better motor control, backEMF for great slow speed control, graphic equalizer to maximize sound for you speaker's characteristics, 16 bit sound vs. 8 bit sound; no coupling capacitor for the audio amplifier - eliminates the 3dB loss at the lower frequencies; multiple form factors for the different chassis designs available. There are several websites showing speaker placement for P2K E units. I recommend a 1.1 inch round speaker in an enclosure pointing up mounted where the existing circuit board is mounted; remove the board and replace factory lamps with LEDs and 1000 ohm resistors. The Micro Tsunaimi fits easier, but as an alternative you can point your speaker assembly DOWN and place a standard Tsunami on top of the speaker chamber; another method is to mill the huge weight down to allow clearance of the decoder;still another is to remove the cab interior and mount the decoder upfront. In any case you should enjoy the results.
Carl in Florida - - - - - - - - - - We need an HO Amtrak SDP40F and GE U36B oh wait- We GOT THEM!
Carl and I agree about the Tsunami, and are saying almost the same thing about installation, except: the Tsunami is fairly large and probably cannot be fitted in the back with a round speaker in an enclosure, even with the circuit board done away with, without removing metal from the weight. A 16 x 35 mm (.63 x 1.4") speaker can be fitted closer under the roof, and by not using an (un-needed) baffle enclosure, there is enough clearance for both items.
When I look at a diesel the first time to figure out the speaker placement, I am hoping for a way to use gratings or screens on the side, but will use the roof as my second choice. I use multiple #80 holes because they are virtually invisible in any kind of vent. I prefer not mounting the speaker pointing downward. An example con about bottom-mounted speakers: my BLI C30-7 suddenly developed an annoying static sound. It turned out one speaker's magnet had picked up a tiny steel scrap from the track, which was stuck in the grill and touching the cone.
A seal or sealed space is obviously needed between the sound vent holes and one side of the speaker. But no rear baffle enclosure is needed for speakers radiating at the top or high on the sides if all other openings in the shell are blocked except at the bottom. Dealers love to sell you baffles, but they not only take up extra space, their volume is so small that they tend to make speakers sound tinnier than normal, which is bad enough.
All IMHO.