I have been running the Digitrax SEB for 3 weeks now and must say I love it, but I am starting to have a hard time keeping the wheels clean? With the old Bachmann E-Z and MRC 8 amp booster keeping the wheels clean was easy, maybe clean them after 20 to 30 hours of run time.
People here that followed my posting, or should they be called "Kens Decoder Cook Book" know I was having decoder problems. When I called Digitrax and told them I had 14.5 volts at the rail, they said that was to much and should have only 12.0 volts, hum. Then I got the SEB and in the booklet it all so stated I should run the SEB on the N scale setting for HO. Not wanting to start the smoke unit on my DH 123 and 163's I am running the bench at 12.0 volts.
This is when the problem of dirty wheels started. Engines that have the most problems are the ones that I have changed some of the CV's.
SD 7, have CV 3 around 20.
SD 40-2, CV 3 is around 50 and CV 4 at 20.
F-3, Simonne 1966 speed matched them for me, 3 engine consist and turned off one of the DH 123 DC functions I am guessing by accident, other than that no idea, but they run well.
So what do you folks think the problem might be? To low of volts or changing the CV's. Besides gleaming the track is there any wiring tips that might help keep the rail cleaner like shorter wires?
Cude Ken
I hate Rust
my club has a super chief on our ho scale layout and an empire builder on our n scale layout and my home layout also has the empire builder. we run the clubs layout on the voltage that is for the proper scale. ho for ho, n for n scale. running ho on the n scale setting will make the ho trains run slower and the sound will be lower in volume. we don't notice any increase in dirty track as a result of using dcc.
we run slider cars with masonite pads quite often on the layouts and they do a good job of keeping the track clean. i have several slider cars and i run one in each train on my layout and very rarely have to clean my track.
davidmbedardClean rails is independent of your system.........only cudaken can connect the 2.....
Dave give me a break would you! As stated the only thing that was changed was the DCC system it self. I clean the wheels the same way and clean the track the same way. Things that have changed is the DCC system has 12.0 volts to the rails, not 14.5 and 5 amps not 8 amps and few of the CV's.
Dave, if you changed DCC system and did nothing else different and you started having the wheels get dirty quicker what question would you ask here?
I clean the steam engines wheels with a Kadee eclectic wire brush. Diesels I use Goo Gone on a paper towel and on a power cleaning track. I have heard pro and cons on both of the methods I use, and all the other ways you can clean wheels as well. With the old DCC system I used for 2 years, keeping the wheels clean was not a problem.
Cleaning the track, I use two to three Trainline cleaning cars. If I had not ran the cleaning cars for a week or so I push one car and drag two cars. Normally 3 times around a line is all I needed for a week plus.
Cuda Ken
Ken, when I first began to run my new layout, it seemed that I was always finding bad sections of track here and there that needed a gentle wipe with some very fine sand paper. In the past almost two years, though, this has dropped off markedly. Now, I don't run my trains much...maybe 30 min per week (too long to explain), but in that time, during winter heating, you'd think a fair bit of dust would accumulate all over the layout. But I don't seem to get cruddy wheels! My layout must have something like a grand total of 200 powered hours by now, and I have never had to take a Sunday afternoon and do a thorough scrub of my rails all over the layout...sort of a spring cleaning.....never!
I don't see how the lower voltage would do anything except affect your performance as you place further demands on the system by making more engines do work. I don't see how it could possibly affect your tire cleanliness or that of your rails. Something else is going on.
This is likely to persist until you figure it out. In the meantime, maybe you could try the full gleam treatment and see if you can't put 80% of this particular problem behind you pretty much permanently.
It's a thought. I have never resorted to gleaming, but I don't seem to have the diameters of my tires growing, either. A few tires here and there when I bother to check them, but my engines are spotless...it is only the odd car, mostly plastic that accumulates the crud.
-Crandell
selector I don't see how the lower voltage would do anything except affect your performance as you place further demands on the system by making more engines do work. I don't see how it could possibly affect your tire cleanliness or that of your rails. Something else is going on.
Crandell my friend, thanks for the answer. I just fired up my consist of 3 PK 1000 F-3. There wheels are getting nasty quicker with the SEB. Lead engine and rear engine powered up but the center B unit was dead. Wheels where spinning on the two A's. Switched the DB 150 to HO scale, train started moving as soon as I turned the knob.
Reason I was using the N scale setting is because it was what the booklet said to do, I am going to use HO scale for now and see what happens.
There got to be a little more to it besides me not to bright.
Ken
Ken,
My opinion is that your old setup was simply masking the problem by running at a higher track voltage.
Your track and wheels were getting dirtier all along, but it didn't affect you until it built up enough AND you set your SEB to the lower voltage (N-scale) setting.
The combination of the two (build up over time and lower voltage setting) pushed you past the point of no more reliability.
Since you can't keep increasing you track voltage, the way to prevent the problem is by keeping your track/wheels cleaner.
Steve
Stevert Ken, My opinion is that your old setup was simply masking the problem by running at a higher track voltage. Your track and wheels were getting dirtier all along, but it didn't affect you until it built up enough AND you set your SEB to the lower voltage (N-scale) setting. The combination of the two (build up over time and lower voltage setting) pushed you past the point of no more reliability. Since you can't keep increasing you track voltage, the way to prevent the problem is by keeping your track/wheels cleaner.
Steve, you said what I was trying to ask.
Any ideas on better ways to keep the track clean?
Thanks Folks.
Don't use Goo Gone -- it leaves a sticky film on the track that just attracts more and more dirt! You need to use a metal polish of some type or a stronger solvent than Goo Gone.
Since I purchased a CMX Clean Machine and run it with lacquer thinner I haven't had to clean the club's 20x40 foot HO scale layout for over six months. With Goo Gone and a Centerline track cleaning car it had to be cleaned every week, and sometimes twice a week.
And you need to set the SEB back onto the HO scale setting. Digitrax must have misunderstood your question -- 14.5 Volts is the exact NMRA standard for HO scale when measured with a VOM set on the AC Voltage range.
cacoleAnd you need to set the SEB back onto the HO scale setting. Digitrax must have misunderstood your question -- 14.5 Volts is the exact NMRA standard for HO scale when measured with a VOM set on the AC Voltage range.
There no misunderstanding about this statement. Super Empire Builder manual up dated 11/ 03 page 37 "Digitrax recommends running your DB 150 at the lowest setting that gives you acceptable operation. The N scale setting is sufficient for most HO operations and provides an extra safety margin."
I will look into finding a small container of thinner.
cudaken Any ideas on better ways to keep the track clean? Thanks Folks.
You'll get lots of opinions on which solvents or methods to use/not use, etc. I think that "what works" depends a lot on the layout's environment and usage, as well as the specific cleaning methods used.
What works for me is the cross-cut end of a scrap of lumber left over from benchwork construction. Sort of a variation of the masonite pad method, if you will. Once it gets gunked up too much, trim a sixteenth of an inch or so off the end with a coarse saw blade, or just find another scrap.
I've also (very sparingly!) used Flitz or similar metal polish with good results. This works well on the more fragile places such as turnout points, etc.
The bottom line is to find something that works for your situation. Also, think of track cleaning not as a necessary evil, but rather as a step that's required to keep your layout looking and running it's best.
HTH, Steve
On my old 8x12, the only time I EVER cleaned the track was after paiting the dies of the rail. In some palces I didn;t get all the paint off the tops of the rail immediately, so a few passes with a Brite Boy were required to clean it all off. I could go days without runnign trains (in a basement with no climate control, other than a portable heater that was not kept on unless someone was in the room, and then it was inadequate to get it about 60 or so in the middle of winter, and no ac for the summer, and a weak attempt at dehumidification in the summer), and still not need to clean the tracks. I did replace all plastic car wheelsets with metal ones, this helped a lot.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I agree with all that's been said here, especially about the use of Goo Gone.
There's always that controversy about using the Kadee wheel cleaner. I stopped using mine when i found that the nickle coating was thinning on some of my most used equipment. This was more evident on the Atlas/ Roco (started to see brass showing). So when others say that the brass brush has no effct, I disagree. It can put "micro scratches" on the treads which will undoubtably fill w/ crud.
Try using the wetted paper towel and 91% isopropyl alcohol.
A track cleaning car Like the CMX (laquer thinner) followed by dry wipe roller or pad should keep those rails clean.
Aside from the issue of the voltage change, whereas the higher voltage may have masked this "new" problem of yours, do you think that you may also have any environment conditions of season/ weather change of this time of year. I know that your layout ("bench, love it") is in your garage, is it possible that windy or dusty conditions could also be the culprit?
You know, that love of "train" is taking away precious space for those MOPARS!!!!
Hope this helps in some way Ken.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
The weather also changed about the time you installed your SEB. It may simply be a coincidence. There is pollen in the air, and more humidity holds more crud airborne and lets it float around. You may already be leaving windows open, too.
Lacquer thinner, by the way, is cheap. As long as you don't buy any of that fat lacquer that needs to be thinned, a quart container (or is it a pint?) will last you as long as your layoout.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
A for the voltage - there should be no issue running HO trains on the N scale setting - that happens to be about the same voltage the Zephyr puts out (and it's not adjustable like the DB150 and DCS100). If I needed more power and added a DB150 to my Zephyr it would run at the N scale setting just so when the trains went from track powered by the Zephyr to track powered by the DB150 the speed wouldn't change. And what I said above about never having to clean my track - that was with nothing but a Zephyr powering the layout with about 12-12.5 volts. I still say all metal wheels and no turnouts with plastic frogs (I used Atlas Custom-Line #4 and #6 - they have metal frogs) made the most difference in keeping things clean.