I allready have a digitrax zephyr and it works great however i like all the options you get with mrc's prodigy like the setting of routes and the yard mode for the throttle. and i'm looking to step up a bit with my layout adding more loco's etc. like i said though not sure if the super cheif from digitrax would be better or what?
Keep in mind the Zephyr isn't an orphan, all Digitrax products will work with it. You can run up to 11 engines with the Zephyr, but you can add a booster if you want to run more. If you want to add walkaround, radio control, signalling, autoreversing etc. you can pretty much do it all starting with your Zephyr and plugging in Digitrax add-on products. I'd check out their website as noted above, and maybe drop them a note explaining what you want to do and what would be the best choice of products to get you there.
www.digitrax.com
As stated, this is the whole idea behind the Digitrax system - you never throw anything out or have useless bits sitting on the shelf as you grow your layout. Even if you add a DCS100 command station and the Zephyr no longer performs that function - the throttle in it is still perfectly functional, plus it can be reconfigured to be a booster. Keep in mind the Zephyr as a command station gives you almost every feature of the DCS100 (command station in the Super Chief) except for the routes and fast clock. And it's 2.5 amps vs 5 amps. There are other paths to adding both of these features. A DS64 stationary decoder hadnles routes. If you don;t see yourself running more than 10 trains/consists, but might need more power, you can add a DB150 configured as a booster and set up a seperate power district with 5 amps from that, plus another district with the 2.5 amps from the Zephyr, which still would act as the command station. If you hook up a computer interface such as the Locobuffer-USB or PR3, you can use free JMRI software to program decoders, build routes, and also provide a fast clock (provided you have a DT400 throttle that can display the fast clock).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Speaking as an NCE user, my advice is to stay with Digitrax! You won't regret the choice over the MRC system.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
I am just now a Digitrax convert and still not a big fan of changing CV's. One of the things that sold me on Digitrax was the fact you could add to it. Unless you have ran out of power from the Zepher, next I would get would be the Digitrax PR 3 computer interfaces. With the JMRI software you can run your layout with your PC.
This should be a link to JMRI to give you a idea what a PR 3 and JMRI soft ware can add to your system.
http://vps2642.inmotionhosting.com/~modelr5/index.php?q=mrht_decoderpro
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
The routes question has already been answered.
As to the yard mode for the throttle, most of the new Digitrax FX3 decoders have what is called a 'switching speed' built right in. This gives better 'feel' on the throttle and limits the speed of the loco as well. It is usually accessed on Function 6 I think, but can be remapped to any function you like.
I have several of the Digitrax Decoders (DH163 FX3s) installed and have used the 'switching mode' on occasion during 'operating' sessions where we are doing a lot of switching. Quite useful IMHO.
I don't know what decoders you are using, but if they are Digitrax, check out their decoder manual under CV53 & CV54 Torque Compensation & Switching Speed. Page 49 in my old decoder manual.
Hope this helps.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Here is a couple more ways to do routes to Digitrax:
CML Electronis DTM30 Super Tower Master
Team Digital SRC16 - Switch & Route Controller
MRc allows 31 routes with up to 8 accessories(although these are normally swicthes, they could also be other things such as lights to signal the selection of a route) each. With Digitrax, you are not limited by the number of routes, each device that can contorl routes is lmited, but you can always add multiple devices. You also are not limmited on the number of accessories in a route because you can cascade routes.
I am and always have been an NCE user, but of the two options you ask about, I would take Digitrax hands down. I admit a real hate for MRC because of their decoders if for no other reason.
Bob
If you're going to operate routes from a fixed location then the previously mentioned options for Digitrax will work fine. However, if you eventually want to operate routes from a hand-held walk-around throttle, I could be wrong but it would be my understanding that you would need to upgrade to the Digitrax Super Chief.
One nice thing about Digitrax, either the Zephyr alone, or by adding a DT400 throttle to the Zephyr, is that when in switch mode (turnout throwing mode) you can work your way through a series of turnouts with a minum of button presses. It's works very nicely without the need for routes. Sure, routes might be easier but maybe not that necessary. That all depends on how you want to do things.
MRC's DCC systems, at least the Prodigy Advance Squared and the Wireless are very good. But, for me, and for many others, the biggest drawback is the lack of a computer interface that is compatible with JMRI's Decoder Pro and Panel Pro. However, MRC has announced that in about a month they will allow users to experiment with their new computer interface. Maybe you will want to wait to see how good this will be, but since you are already into Digitrax I would strongly recommend staying with it as it is one of the finest systems available, with lots of upgrade options, and considered by many to be superior to MRC.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
jwils1If you're going to operate routes from a fixed location then the previously mentioned options for Digitrax will work fine. However, if you eventually want to operate routes from a hand-held walk-around throttle, I could be wrong but it would be my understanding that you would need to upgrade to the Digitrax Super Chief.
CSX Robertjwils1If you're going to operate routes from a fixed location then the previously mentioned options for Digitrax will work fine. However, if you eventually want to operate routes from a hand-held walk-around throttle, I could be wrong but it would be my understanding that you would need to upgrade to the Digitrax Super Chief. Nope! They can be operated from pushbuttons or from the throttle(they respond to a switch throw or close command); however, with MRC, as far as I know, they can only be operated from a throttle.
Actually, with Digitrax, it depends on how you implement routes. If you are using routes in the DCS100/200 (Super Chief), you can only operate them from the throttle, or via software such as JMRI.
But if you're using the route feature of a device such as the DS54/64, Team Digital SRCx, etc, then it depends on the abilities of the device being used. (ie, whether it has local inputs for "fixed location" push buttons, etc).
Steve
Stevert...Actually, with Digitrax, it depends on how you implement routes. If you are using routes in the DCS100/200 (Super Chief), you can only operate them from the throttle, or via software such as JMRI...
You can even have multiple devices control the same routes, so if you want to be able to set a route(or several routes) from either end of a railroad, you can have a control panel at both ends able to set the route(s) and the only thing you have to have between the two panels is the 6 wire Loconet cable. You can have switches and routes controlled from several different control panels and from a PC(or even several PC's) and it is all tied together with the 6 wire Loconat cable.
CSX RobertStevert...Actually, with Digitrax, it depends on how you implement routes. If you are using routes in the DCS100/200 (Super Chief), you can only operate them from the throttle, or via software such as JMRI... Not really. Although there are no pushbutton inputs directly to the DCS100/200 for controlling routes, they do respond to switch commands, so any Loconet device that generates switch commands can control the routes in the DCS 100/200. There are several Loconet products available to generate a switch command from a pushbutton input. If you are using the DCS100/200 internal routes, you do have to add hardware to control them from pushbuttons, but at least that is an option, with MRC, there is no way to control routes other than from the throttle no matter what you add to the system.
You are correct. I didn't consider that scenario because I would tend to use the route ability built into such a device rather than simply using it to trigger a route in the CS. But either way would work.
jwils1CSX Robertjwils1If you're going to operate routes from a fixed location then the previously mentioned options for Digitrax will work fine. However, if you eventually want to operate routes from a hand-held walk-around throttle, I could be wrong but it would be my understanding that you would need to upgrade to the Digitrax Super Chief. Nope! They can be operated from pushbuttons or from the throttle(they respond to a switch throw or close command); however, with MRC, as far as I know, they can only be operated from a throttle.My point is that if you only want to control routes from your hand-held throttle with Digitrax you must have the Chief command station. Am I wrong?
Yes, that's wrong.
There are other LocoNet devices besides the Chief command station that have a route ability that is triggered by a switch command.
For example, you can program a route into a DS64. You can even program a nested route using multiple DS64's. Then just use your throttle to close or throw the address you gave that route. Since it's stored in the DS64('s), it doesn't matter what CS you're using.
Stevert jwils1 CSX Robertjwils1If you're going to operate routes from a fixed location then the previously mentioned options for Digitrax will work fine. However, if you eventually want to operate routes from a hand-held walk-around throttle, I could be wrong but it would be my understanding that you would need to upgrade to the Digitrax Super Chief. Nope! They can be operated from pushbuttons or from the throttle(they respond to a switch throw or close command); however, with MRC, as far as I know, they can only be operated from a throttle.My point is that if you only want to control routes from your hand-held throttle with Digitrax you must have the Chief command station. Am I wrong? Yes, that's wrong. There are other LocoNet devices besides the Chief command station that have a route ability that is triggered by a switch command. For example, you can program a route into a DS64. You can even program a nested route using multiple DS64's. Then just use your throttle to close or throw the address you gave that route. Since it's stored in the DS64('s), it doesn't matter what CS you're using. Steve
jwils1 CSX Robertjwils1If you're going to operate routes from a fixed location then the previously mentioned options for Digitrax will work fine. However, if you eventually want to operate routes from a hand-held walk-around throttle, I could be wrong but it would be my understanding that you would need to upgrade to the Digitrax Super Chief. Nope! They can be operated from pushbuttons or from the throttle(they respond to a switch throw or close command); however, with MRC, as far as I know, they can only be operated from a throttle.My point is that if you only want to control routes from your hand-held throttle with Digitrax you must have the Chief command station. Am I wrong?
Okay, that makes sense. In my case I'm using Lenz LS150 turnout controllers so I could not use routes with my Zephyr/DT400R and would have to upgrade to the Chief CS.
Yes, you are wrong.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
jwils1Okay, that makes sense. In my case I'm using Lenz LS150 turnout controllers so I could not use routes with my Zephyr/DT400R and would have to upgrade to the Chief CS.
CSX Robertjwils1Okay, that makes sense. In my case I'm using Lenz LS150 turnout controllers so I could not use routes with my Zephyr/DT400R and would have to upgrade to the Chief CS. Yyou would not have to upgrade to a Chief. When a route is run on any of the Loconet devices mentioned above(DS64, DTM30, SRC16, plus there are others), the switch commmands also go out the track outputs, so they should work with any brand of turnout controller.
I appreciate your responses as they always offer solutions. I've looked through the DS64 instructions but am not yet sure I understand.
For the sake of discussion, lets say I have 27 turnouts operated by Lenz LS150s and powered by an old MRC power pack. Now, if I want to set a maximum of 8 routes, that might involve all 27 turnouts in various combinations, how many DS64's do I need if I'm only going to operate the routes from my Zephyr or DT400? And, can I still operate any individual turnout without involving the route operations? Sorry for my stupidity but I really don't get it yet.
Please clarify your question. Are you asking how many DS64s you need to run 8 different routes, EACH of which will throw 27 switches? Or are you saying that all 27 switches will be operated by one or more of the routes?
1 DS64 can control 8 routes and each route can control 8 switches. 1 of those switches can trigger another route on a different DS64, but it cannot trigger another route on the same DS64.
The DS64 does not have to be actually operating any switches in order to use the route function.
This should explain it:
http://digitrax.com/DS64AppNote.htm
Phoebe Vet Please clarify your question. Are you asking how many DS64s you need to run 8 different routes, EACH of which will throw 27 switches? Or are you saying that all 27 switches will be operated by one or more of the routes? 1 DS64 can control 8 routes and each route can control 8 switches. 1 of those switches can trigger another route on a different DS64, but it cannot trigger another route on the same DS64. The DS64 does not have to be actually operating any switches in order to use the route function. This should explain it: http://digitrax.com/DS64AppNote.htm
jwils1...And, can I still operate any individual turnout without involving the route operations?..
CSX Robertjwils1...And, can I still operate any individual turnout without involving the route operations?.. Absolutely, and the need for this ability is critical for answering the rest of your post. The quick answer is if you have no more than 8 routes, and no one of them has more than 8 turnouts in it, then one DS64 would be enough, maybe, and I'll explain the maybe. Each route has up to 8 "cells", with each cell having an address and a throw or close command. The first cell is the trigger for the route, so the turnout and position in the first cell cannot be set without triggering the route. As long as any route that has 8 turnouts has at least one turnout that does not have to be controlled seperately, then a single DS64 can handle it(think of a yard ladder, would you ever need to throw the last turnout in a yard ladder if the rest of the yard was not alligned for it?). If every turnout in a route has to be controllable seperately without triggering the route, then you are limited to 7 turnouts in a route in a single DS64(in this case, you would use a "phantom turnout", that is an address that is not actually being used by a turnout, as the trigger for the route). I think it is important to point out that as long as there is at least one turnout in the route that you do not need seperate control of, then you can make that turnout the trigger and you can control 8 turnouts in a route. It is also important to point out that, for example, if "turnout 123 close" is a route trigger, then "turnout 123 throw" will not trigger that route, and can trigger a seperate route.
You can also do this as I mentioned with JMRI. If you already have a computer interface (Locobuffer or PR-3) then JMRI is free, and you cna implement routes very easily with the Panel Pro component of JMRI, using the LS-150's as the turnout control. Each turnout has an address already set, you don't change that. What routes are, more or less, are 'dummy' turnout addresses that oeprate one or more real addresses. Or they can be nested where one route triggers another route plus a single address or two. At any rate, this is compeltely doable in JMRI with no additioanl hardware (again assumign you have a computer interface for your Zephyr or DB150). You don't even need a DT400 throttle to access them, the Zephyr keypad can operate switch addresses. So you can Close #5, and what it actually does is close #10,11, and 14, and open #12 and 13. No DS-64's, No DCS100 command station upgrade. You can further configure a virtual control panel on the computer screen where you cna click the button and do the same thing as using the throttle to trigger the routes.
The switch commands do not go directly out of the DS64 to the track outputs. The DS64 is not a booster. It sends the commands to Loconet and then they are passed through the booster and to the track. The DS64 can receive commands via either method, if you have the track inputs connected to the DS64 and are not using local power only and OptSw14 is set for factory default.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
jbinkley60The switch commands do not go directly out of the DS64 to the track outputs. The DS64 is not a booster. It sends the commands to Loconet and then they are passed through the booster and to the track.
CSX Robertjbinkley60The switch commands do not go directly out of the DS64 to the track outputs. The DS64 is not a booster. It sends the commands to Loconet and then they are passed through the booster and to the track. Thanks for clearing that up. That is what I meant(when I said "track outputs" I meant the track outputs on the command station and/or booster), but after reading your post and then re-reading mine, I can see where my description can be confusing.
My goal was to clear this up for anyone reding this. I knew what you meant. I had to reread the entire thread twice to pickup all of the details including that has has Lenz150s with a Zeyphr system. If this had been a non-Loconet arrange, the proposed solution wouldn't have worked.