It's been a while since I've posted here, but I need some suggestions...
I bought a Digitrax SFX0416 sound/function decoder at the amherst train show last weekend, intending to mount it with a speaker under my yard. The plan is to get some sound while running any of several non-sound equipped switchers while operating there.
Lesson Learned: When connecting the bare decoder to the PR2 programmer, one needs to install a 14v bulb between the white and blue function outputs, or the PR2 is unable to read the decoder data. Thanks to Mr. Beasly for pointing this out in one of his posts.
So I succesfully loaded the decoder with the SW1 project file. Now I need to synchronize the sound with the movements of the selected switcher.
I thought I could do this by consisting the decoder with the engine. What I ended up with was no sound (or lights) from the bare decoder when the real loco was set up as the lead engine. I'm running an NCE PowerCab, and this particular engine has a TCS decoder in it. So, the question....
Is it possible to consist the two together and still get sound from the non-lead decoder?
I was able to program the decoder with the loco's number, but this procedure is not without risk - if I accidentally modify the address of the sound decoder without isolating it on my programming track, I could set every engine on the layout to the same address (don't ask how I know ).
Thanks,
Jim
The Digitrax sound decoder will not work for the purpose you want unless it is set to the address of the engine under control or is consisted with that particular engine.
A simpler solution for you, other than installing a sound decoder into every engine, might be to install the SoundTraxx Surround Traxx unnder-table sound system.
MRC used to make a similar system, too, but it did not work very well and I think it has been discontinued.
I'm not familiar with the PowerCab, but I do have the Pro Cab. In setting up the command station, there might be a question - send commands to consist. If you have that on the PowerCab, make sure you answer yes.
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
jim22 It's been a while since I've posted here, but I need some suggestions... I bought a Digitrax SFX0416 sound/function decoder at the amherst train show last weekend, intending to mount it with a speaker under my yard. The plan is to get some sound while running any of several non-sound equipped switchers while operating there. Lesson Learned: When connecting the bare decoder to the PR2 programmer, one needs to install a 14v bulb between the white and blue function outputs, or the PR2 is unable to read the decoder data. Thanks to Mr. Beasly for pointing this out in one of his posts.
The issue is specific to the SFX0416, SFX064 and similar decoders. You can also connect a 220 ohm resistor instead of the light. Without either you can program the decoder, you just can't read back the results. I am not sure why Digitrax would design it this way. Some folks may not want to run their lights off the sound decoder and instead run them off the motor controller. Not Digitrax's best design.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I have a Digitrax Zephyr so the steps to MU a loco may be different for you.
I have a Soundtraxx DSD-100LC mounted under my train table to provide sound to my non-sound equipped locos. Similar to the arrangement you talk about. Actually, there are two sound decoders under the table. A first generation EMD, Address 20 and a steam loco decoder, Address 10.
Instead of programming the under table decoder to match the engine being used, I speed matched my locos to each other. Then I matched the sound decoder to one of the engines.
I did this by running the engine on the main line, then calling up the sound decoder's address and programming the sounds to match the speed/direction etc. of the loco in OPS mode. It took a bit of tinkering the first time, but I worked it out to my satisfaction.
Now I do it using the throttles and programmer in DecoderPro.
When I run a non-sound loco, I MU the selected loco to with the sound decoder of choice as the lead loco in the consist.
I have a photo or two of my under table decoder installation on my website. Link is in my signature. Once on site, push the Layout button and scroll down the page.
Hope this helps.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
jbinkley60 jim22 It's been a while since I've posted here, but I need some suggestions... I bought a Digitrax SFX0416 sound/function decoder at the amherst train show last weekend, intending to mount it with a speaker under my yard. The plan is to get some sound while running any of several non-sound equipped switchers while operating there. Lesson Learned: When connecting the bare decoder to the PR2 programmer, one needs to install a 14v bulb between the white and blue function outputs, or the PR2 is unable to read the decoder data. Thanks to Mr. Beasly for pointing this out in one of his posts. The issue is specific to the SFX0416, SFX064 and similar decoders. You can also connect a 220 ohm resistor instead of the light. Without either you can program the decoder, you just can't read back the results. I am not sure why Digitrax would design it this way. Some folks may not want to run their lights off the sound decoder and instead run them off the motor controller. Not Digitrax's best design.
It needs SOMETHING to load down the program track with. This is how all decoders work for readback. Motor decoders have the load of the motor - most will not program unless you connect a motor or a resistor across the motor terminals. This is no different, it's a sound and function decoder so the logical load to 'pulse' is F0F. Function-only decoders likely require the same thing - a load on F0F. I'm trying to think of a decoder that can program with no loads connected - no motor, no lights - just connect the red and black to the program track. And I can't think of any. The decoder testers offered by NCE and ESU provide a load for this purpose. I built my own and put a resistor inside to provide a motor load - and then promptly never used the thing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
ClinchValleySD40I'm not familiar with the PowerCab, but I do have the Pro Cab. In setting up the command station, there might be a question - send commands to consist. If you have that on the PowerCab, make sure you answer yes.
davidmbedard...or you can program the decoder to accept sound commands while in consists. Davis B
...or you can program the decoder to accept sound commands while in consists.
Davis B
Solved!
Program the sound decoder on the programming track...
1. Set the decoder to long address 1000.
2. Set CV21 to 255 (0xFF hex: F8..F1 under consist control).
3. Set CV22 to 60 (0x3C hex: F12..F9 under consist control, but not F + R headlamps).
With sound decoder and loco 9123 on the main...
4. Create an advanced consist:
consist address 127
lead loco 9123, forward
rear loco 1000, forward
It works pretty well. I need to adjust the start voltage of 9123 so the sound gets going before the loco takes off. I'm not completely happy with the SW1 sound project from the digitrax website. There doesn't seem to be a way to get a short horn toot from it, and the engine sound makes a severe step in volume at speed step 2, but it's a great start.
Thanks for the help
rrinker jbinkley60 jim22 It's been a while since I've posted here, but I need some suggestions... I bought a Digitrax SFX0416 sound/function decoder at the amherst train show last weekend, intending to mount it with a speaker under my yard. The plan is to get some sound while running any of several non-sound equipped switchers while operating there. Lesson Learned: When connecting the bare decoder to the PR2 programmer, one needs to install a 14v bulb between the white and blue function outputs, or the PR2 is unable to read the decoder data. Thanks to Mr. Beasly for pointing this out in one of his posts. The issue is specific to the SFX0416, SFX064 and similar decoders. You can also connect a 220 ohm resistor instead of the light. Without either you can program the decoder, you just can't read back the results. I am not sure why Digitrax would design it this way. Some folks may not want to run their lights off the sound decoder and instead run them off the motor controller. Not Digitrax's best design. It needs SOMETHING to load down the program track with. This is how all decoders work for readback. Motor decoders have the load of the motor - most will not program unless you connect a motor or a resistor across the motor terminals. This is no different, it's a sound and function decoder so the logical load to 'pulse' is F0F. Function-only decoders likely require the same thing - a load on F0F. I'm trying to think of a decoder that can program with no loads connected - no motor, no lights - just connect the red and black to the program track. And I can't think of any. The decoder testers offered by NCE and ESU provide a load for this purpose. I built my own and put a resistor inside to provide a motor load - and then promptly never used the thing. --Randy
Randy,
It isn't a programming track load issue. It is a SFX0416/064 etc decoder design issue. I spent a few days on one with a DH165IP motor decoder. If it were a programming track issue, I could just put a resistor across the track and be able to read the CVs back. That won't work. You can have the motor decoder installed (providing the programming track load) and then connect the SFX decoder and you still can't read back the CVs on the soudn decoder. The only way is to have current go through the SFX decoder by placing a load on the blue/white or blue/yellow leads. The SFX004 Soundbugs don't have this issue but then again, they don't have lamp outputs
It's exactly what I said it - you need a load across the program track FROM THE DECODER (in case that part wasn't clear) which is how the decoder signals back to the command station for acknowledgement. Thus putting the lamp on to make it work - that provides the load for the decoder to acknowledge the command station. The DH165 has the motor. The Soundbug they built it in to the decoder since there is no way to connect an external load to those. Probably could have done the same with the SFX but like they assume you hook a motor to a motor decoder they assume you hook a lamp to the sound and function decoder.
I did not say, nor did I intend to convey, that you need to do the 'resistors across the program track' trick, unlike other sound decoders the Digitrax ones actually program fine with no tricks. They also recover from shorts without any inrush problems. Readback is sort of a misnomer, too, the command station basically asks the decoder if the CV is 1 - yes or no, if no, is it 2? no..is it 3? And so on until the decoder says yes. The decoder doesn't actually 'send' the contents of a CV to the command station. The decoder turns on a load of some sort - like the motor or the light bulb - which the command station can see - it's in the NMRA specs just how this actually works. This is what I meant bya load across the program track - a motor decoder usually turns on the motor - if it's not connected, there's no load and no readback. The SFX tries to turn on the F0 output - if the wires aren't connected to anything, there's no load across the program track and no readback.
Randy, In your last post, you mentioned "voltage inrush" as the system was recovering from a short.
Might that have caused some strange decoder functions to happen after a short on our club layout? For instance, one of my locos (a GP-60M) developed a Mars light - cute but not protoypic. At other times, locos lost their programming in total.
Robert in NC
rrinker It's exactly what I said it - you need a load across the program track FROM THE DECODER (in case that part wasn't clear) which is how the decoder signals back to the command station for acknowledgement. Thus putting the lamp on to make it work - that provides the load for the decoder to acknowledge the command station. The DH165 has the motor. The Soundbug they built it in to the decoder since there is no way to connect an external load to those. Probably could have done the same with the SFX but like they assume you hook a motor to a motor decoder they assume you hook a lamp to the sound and function decoder. I did not say, nor did I intend to convey, that you need to do the 'resistors across the program track' trick, unlike other sound decoders the Digitrax ones actually program fine with no tricks. They also recover from shorts without any inrush problems. Readback is sort of a misnomer, too, the command station basically asks the decoder if the CV is 1 - yes or no, if no, is it 2? no..is it 3? And so on until the decoder says yes. The decoder doesn't actually 'send' the contents of a CV to the command station. The decoder turns on a load of some sort - like the motor or the light bulb - which the command station can see - it's in the NMRA specs just how this actually works. This is what I meant bya load across the program track - a motor decoder usually turns on the motor - if it's not connected, there's no load and no readback. The SFX tries to turn on the F0 output - if the wires aren't connected to anything, there's no load across the program track and no readback. --Randy
Appreciate the clarification, especially the second paragraph on how the decoder "signals" back to the command station. That answers the question I have had on why the lights blink when I do a full CV read with Decoder Pro. I'll dig around more with the NMRA standards on exactly how the decoder and command station interact on the programming track.
santafenc Randy, In your last post, you mentioned "voltage inrush" as the system was recovering from a short. Might that have caused some strange decoder functions to happen after a short on our club layout? For instance, one of my locos (a GP-60M) developed a Mars light - cute but not protoypic. At other times, locos lost their programming in total. Robert in NC
Probably not directly. Actually it's a current inrush - the keep alive capacitor in the sound decoders are wired directly across the power supply (at least with QSI and Soundtraxx) and a capacitor appears as a short circuit until it charges. So short the track with a lot of soudn decoders on it, and when the short is cleared and they all attempt to power up, the command station or circuit breaker if you have power districts sees it as still shorted and can't turn the power back on. The pwoer 'blinks' as the circuit tries to reset and it's possible this could cause some wierd problems with a decoder, especially if no one notices for a while. You can cut down on problems by disabling DC conversion on the decoder and, if it supports it, enabling the lock functionality. Decoders that support the lock will not respond to any programming commands once locked, other than one to unlock it, so if you do this don;t forget about it or you will be wondering why it won't program when you put it on the program track.
jbinkley60 Randy, Appreciate the clarification, especially the second paragraph on how the decoder "signals" back to the command station. That answers the question I have had on why the lights blink when I do a full CV read with Decoder Pro. I'll dig around more with the NMRA standards on exactly how the decoder and command station interact on the programming track.
Yes, those with no motor will probably blink a light. Most motor decoders use the motor - and with a really efficient type of motor the loco can actually move - this is why the gapping between an on-layout program track and the rest of the layout is important, especially if you are using JMRI and doing 'heads down' programming - the loco can 'creep' as all the CVs are programmed and if you aren;t watching it cross the gaps and link the program track to the layout. This is where the idea of a truly dead section between them comes in - with a longer than a loco dead section the worst that can happen is the loco creeps totally off the program track and thus stops responding. Beats linking the two and programming every loco sitting on the track.