I'm green on this DCC thing and have a problem. I have a Bachmann Spectrum steamer DCC ready. We installed a Digitrax decoder in it and it works just fine on our Digitrax 400r system at our club. Now the problem. I purchased a new BLI sound equipped DC-DCC 2-8-2 steam engine, Paragon series. Some minor cosmetic parts were missing, nothing to interfere with the operations however. Took engine to the club to have our DCC guy program it for me. This was fruitless. I tried to find info on BLI's web site, but only found Digitrax instructions for the Blueline series. Tried that to no avail. Can I change out the decoder with a Digitax one and if so will it effect the sound system. I bought the loco because it had the road name I wanted and also because it came decoder equipped. Now $$$ spent for something I can't run and don't know how to get it running. BLI web site also had a video, but showed how to install a decoder and how to program it which was the same as printed instructions, again this video was also for Blueline series loco. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ken
Blueline engines come with sound factory-equipped, but no DCC decoder. Your Paragon engine comes with a sound decoder installed at the factory.
You need to be more specific. Which CV's were you trying to change?? Were you unable to change any CV's, or did you just have trouble with some of them??
I assume before you took it in for programming you tried it on address 03 on your layout to see if it worked OK...it should work in both DC and DCC. BLI has a couple of ways to do a factory reset on the decoder, I would try that then call it up on address 03 or try it in DC and see if it runs OK. (All decoders come from the factory set with ID 03.)
Some of the very early BLI engines (c.2001-2) had trouble with programming and require a "booster" to get the CV's to change, or at least to change some of them. If this is a new engine it shouldn't be a problem however. I seem to remember that BLI engines had trouble with one companies DCC system - maybe NCE?? - but I think that was resolved long ago too.
The Quantum sound decoders installed in Broadway Limited Paragon series locomotives require a programming booster. If your club doesn't have a booster connected to the programming track, you must use Ops Mode (main line) programming.
Depending on the DCC system used at the club, they may need to program CV29 separately after changing the decoder's address. Some DCC systems do this automatically and some don't.
If you want to change the locomotive's address from the default short address of 3 to a long address of 244, for example, select Opns Mode programming, program the long address of 244 into the decoder, and then program CV 29 to a value of 34 as a separate action. Without doing this, the decoder still wants to run on the short address of 3.
If you want the decoder to still operate on DC as well as DCC (dual mode), give CV 29 a value of 38.
Also insure that the wires from the tender to the locomotive are firmly plugged in.
If these procedures don't correct the problem, then contact Broadway Limited because you may have a defective decoder and it will be covered by their warranty.
It sound like people at the club also need to learn how to use the Digitrax system for programming.
Ken,The first thing I would do is reset the BLI sound decoder using the manual's instructions. Some BLI engines have a jumper that needs to disconnected, a magnetic reed switch, or by programming a CV to certain value. If resetting the decoder doesn't work, then I would send the engine to BLI and have them "fix" it (which sometimes means they replace the tender or the whole loco, depending on the problem).
If you don't want to send it back, try purchasing a replacement "upgrade" chip from BLI. These cost about $30, and you have to get one for the loco you have (or have someone program it to the loco you have using the QSI Programmer). Talk to a reputable DCC dealer like Tony's Train eXchange (www.tonystrains.com), Litchfield Station (www.litchfieldstation.com), or TrainTek (www.traintekllc.com). These chips are about 1/2" square, and replace the one currently in your sound loco. You can use a chip removal tool or use a couple small screwdrivers to pop the old one out. Then line up the new one and press it in. It's really simple to change chips. I have "rescued" dead BLI locos by replacing the chip, but it will cost you $30.
If you can't reset the loco, and you don't want to spend $30 on an upgrade chip, try running it on DC analog (a 9v battery would work if nothing else). If she doesn't work, then you are really out of luck and need to send it in to BLI for repair/replacement.
I would not, under any but the most extreme circumstances, rip out the BLI/QSI electronics to replace them with a regular decoder. You can kiss your sound goodbye if you do that. Now, if you hate sound, that would be one thing. But if you bought it for sound, don't snip it away or you will be sorry.
There are several other programming tricks to try on a Digitrax layout if you can't program the loco normally. First, your club should have a PowerPax booster for the programming track. This adds some "oomph" to the power of the programming track which is needed for some sound decoders.
If that doesn't work well enough, you'll have to program these on the mainline using "Ops Mode" programming.
To do that with a DT400R throttle on a DCS100 Chief system (used in most clubs that have Digitrax), you have to select the address the loco is. When new, all DCC decoders are "03", so select that on say the right knob. Put the loco on the mainline track of your layout. Hit the "PROG" button until "Po" shows up on the display and "03" is shown in the bottom right. Program the loco normally, and the power of the mainline should have more than enough "oomph" to program the decoder.
If you don't know the address, then life gets more interesting. You can then use what's called "burst" programming on the mainline. This works, but it also has the nasty side effect of programming all locos on the mainline, too. Therefore, you must remove all locos from the layout, or disconnect the DCS100 Chief "brain" from the layout to prevent this.
Have an isolated piece of track handy, and then connect it to the leads to the DCS100 (after disconnecting it from the layout, of course). To be on the safe side, also unplug the LocoNet wires from the DCS100, too. Now you have an isolated DCS100 and one section of track. Put your loco on that track. Get your throttle and either select nothing ("SEL") or "00". Then go into "Ops Mode" programming by hitting "PROG" until the display shows "Po" and either "SEL" or "00" in the lower right. Now program your loco to something simple like "03" and program "CV29" to "06".
At this point, get out of programming mode by hitting "EXIT" on the throttle. Select "03" on the throttle, and your loco should move around. If it does, reconnect the DCS100 to the layout, then program your loco normally. I do not recommed "burst" programming unless it's the last thing to try.
If even that doesn't work, then you really need to send the loco to BLI.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
cacole The Quantum sound decoders installed in Broadway Limited Paragon series locomotives require a programming booster. If your club doesn't have a booster connected to the programming track, you must use Ops Mode (main line) programming. Depending on the DCC system used at the club, they may need to program CV29 separately after changing the decoder's address. Some DCC systems do this automatically and some don't. If you want to change the locomotive's address from the default short address of 3 to a long address of 244, for example, select Opns Mode programming, program the long address of 244 into the decoder, and then program CV 29 to a value of 34 as a separate action. Without doing this, the decoder still wants to run on the short address of 3. If you want the decoder to still operate on DC as well as DCC (dual mode), give CV 29 a value of 38. Also insure that the wires from the tender to the locomotive are firmly plugged in. If these procedures don't correct the problem, then contact Broadway Limited because you may have a defective decoder and it will be covered by their warranty. It sound like people at the club also need to learn how to use the Digitrax system for programming.
The Paragon Series decoder may need a programming booster on the programming track. They don't always require one. This is solely dependent upon the DCC system being utilized. With my Digitrax Super Chief system I have yet to require one. If this is a newer QSI decoder then he may need to use Direct Mode programming as opposed to Paged Mode. I found this out recently with the new QSI decoders in the Atlas MP15DC units. I could not program the long address with Paged Mode programming. With Direct mode it works fine. With older QSI units, it isn't an issue. I believe the change occured with QSI v7 and higher but don't hold me to that. As you point out, validating CV29 is a must. I prefer 34 or 35 but 38 will work also. I prefer DC conversion mode disabled to avoid potential run away conditions.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Ken relax.
First off, does the loco make sound when you crank the club layout throttle to full voltage? (I assume your club layout does not exceed 16 V DC)
If not, then the decoder may be burnt out. The sound DC/DCC decoders should come on around 6->8V DC.
If you do get sound, then the problem is you need a DCC program track booster to program the decoder. Sound decoders require a lot more power to program than standard decoders. As a result most programming stations fail.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
DigitalGriffinKen relax. First off, does the loco make sound when you crank the club layout throttle to full voltage? (I assume your club layout does not exceed 16 V DC) If not, then the decoder may be burnt out. The sound DC/DCC decoders should come on around 6->8V DC. If you do get sound, then the problem is you need a DCC program track booster to program the decoder. Sound decoders require a lot more power to program than standard decoders. As a result most programming stations fail.
Yes, the sound does come on when I tried running it on our DC track. It took almost full throttle to get it moving, took off like jack rabbit trying to out run a load of buckshot, but slowed down and run fairly decent. I was told it need programming on the DC track to end the jack rabbit starts which I intend to do. The owners manual has the instructions for this. I can handle that. Our DCC "guru" is in Florida for the next few months. Another member that has all DCC equipped engines was trying to program it for me. I showed him the owners manual and told him about programming on the main track like was said above. He picked up the printed out instructions for the Digitax and said I needed to study that and that it should program just as well on the program track. I'm going to take it back to the hobby shop where I purchased it and have them try to program it. If they do program it with Digitrax, will it need to be programed again to run it on another layout, or can it be brought up by the loco numbers and run? Thanks, Ken
Once a decoder is programmed on any DCC system, it will run on any other DCC equipped layout because all of the programming instructions are stored in the locomotive's decoder, not in the DCC system itself.
Eriediamond DigitalGriffin Ken relax. First off, does the loco make sound when you crank the club layout throttle to full voltage? (I assume your club layout does not exceed 16 V DC) If not, then the decoder may be burnt out. The sound DC/DCC decoders should come on around 6->8V DC. If you do get sound, then the problem is you need a DCC program track booster to program the decoder. Sound decoders require a lot more power to program than standard decoders. As a result most programming stations fail. Yes, the sound does come on when I tried running it on our DC track. It took almost full throttle to get it moving, took off like jack rabbit trying to out run a load of buckshot, but slowed down and run fairly decent. I was told it need programming on the DC track to end the jack rabbit starts which I intend to do. The owners manual has the instructions for this. I can handle that. Our DCC "guru" is in Florida for the next few months. Another member that has all DCC equipped engines was trying to program it for me. I showed him the owners manual and told him about programming on the main track like was said above. He picked up the printed out instructions for the Digitax and said I needed to study that and that it should program just as well on the program track. I'm going to take it back to the hobby shop where I purchased it and have them try to program it. If they do program it with Digitrax, will it need to be programed again to run it on another layout, or can it be brought up by the loco numbers and run? Thanks, Ken
DigitalGriffin Ken relax. First off, does the loco make sound when you crank the club layout throttle to full voltage? (I assume your club layout does not exceed 16 V DC) If not, then the decoder may be burnt out. The sound DC/DCC decoders should come on around 6->8V DC. If you do get sound, then the problem is you need a DCC program track booster to program the decoder. Sound decoders require a lot more power to program than standard decoders. As a result most programming stations fail.
Put it on the Digitrax programming track, set the DT400 to Direct Mode programming and try resetting the 4 digit address. Make sure you check CV29 and set it to 34. If that doesn't work, write CV8=8 and then try again. You didn't mention what type of Digitrax system you had the DT400R hooked to. Which system is it ?
Well to be honest, I don't know what system we have at the club other then it has a radio reciever and not infrared. We've had it a couple of years but I've always had DC equipement and never had the urge to go the DCC route until a few weeks ago when a member gave me a decoder to put in my DCC ready Spectrum 2-8-0. The bug bit, so now I have a learning experience ahead of me. I'm going to a LHS today, they have a repair facility in house. I'm going to have them program it for me and purchase a throttle while I'm there. Thanks everyone for your help, patience and moral support here, Ken
That sounds like a good approach. While you're at the LHS, ask them to explain what they had to do. I've got a BLI that I had to program on the main also. It was, as you say, a learning experience. But, that engine has worked like a charm ever since.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Keep in mind a non-DCC problem could have occured that would cause trouble when your friend was trying to program it, like one of the tender's trucks getting turned around causing a short circuit. On the programming track it would just say that it wasn't reading the decoder, not that there was a short necessarily. Although if it ran later in DC, apparently it was OK at that point anyway.
Yes, on DC the sound system takes the first "bite" of electricity so you often have to turn the throttle up to 7-8-9 volts before it starts to move. You can adjust it to make it a little better, but you're probably never going to be able to double-head a sound and non-sound engine on DCC for example.
I would maybe ask at the LHS about a programming booster, could be that would allow you to program the QSI system.
And the 'jack rabbit' action on DC could be because of the type of throttle. We seem to assume that everyone using DC these days has a transistor throttle of some sort, but if it's an old rheostat power pack, it will be VERY hard to control modern low current motors. They will pretty much leap into action and there will be little control. Modern motors dissipate so little current that there's almost no voltage drop across the rheostat.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
This is what I like about this group...everyone has found, and sometimes resorts to, various ways of dealing with elecrical issues. I recalled reading about using the Address "00" to get a Tsunami to reset. Just last week I had a dickens of a time taming a Tsunami recently installed, the first time my SEB from Digitrax has not been able to reach a decoder. Unnerving, to say the least. I remembered the tip about using Ops mode and Address "00" to force it to reset by inputing "08" as the value in CV 08. Worked like a charm.
I find that much of the difficulty stems from new users of decoders being unaware of the the requirement to "enable" an extended (long) address, any number higher than "127". If you use the cab number of an engine with "844", for example, that is a long address, and you MUST also enable the long address, or give the decoder permission to respond to it, by setting CV29 to either "34" or "38". Programming an extended address is really a two part process!
Just returned from my LHS? (close to a two hour drive each way) and happy to report engines runs fine. As they say in NASCAR "AWSOME". He told me that this loco needs to be programmed on the main track unless a booster is attached to the program track. What all he did he told me but I can't remember it all. He did show me a jumper plug in the tender that can be unplugged to reset factory faults??? Now the frosting on the cake! Stopped by the post office and the missing parts for this loco where in so now engine is complete and running great. Hopefully, I can learn this DCC thing without too much trouble. I'm getting a copy of the digitrax manual to study. Maybe before long I"ll know all that "greek" your speaking. Again thanks all, Ken
One other thing, when all else seems to fail, I had one and the Reed switch stuck. The DCC guys I know tried everything. We then cut the reed switch off with a nippers and all was fine.