I'm new to the forum but have been reading the posts here for awhile. I have a Trix Big Boy with a Loksound 2 decoder in it that used to run on a Zepher. I had addressed it to address 15 and it worked fine but wanted to use the whole road number (4015). I tried several times without success to change the address following the instructions in the Zepher manual but it wouldn't take the 4 digit address. I went looking in the manual that came with the loco & realized that it was set for 2 digit address only. I attempted to write the value of 34 to cv29 on the programming track to allow 4 digit addressing. That's where the problems started. The loco went completely dead & I have no idea what happened. It will run perfectly fine on analog (DC) but is totally dead on DCC. I have tried the old address (15) tried address 3, tried to reset to factory defaults to no avail. I also think that I have a problem with the Zepher as I cannot read or write anything on the programming track & that is probably why I can't do anything with the big boy. I've tried with several different locos but all I get is error dnd which says that there's an open on the programming track. I've checked all the connections & have used a multi meter to check the voltage pulse on the programming track which I get. It will write cvs on the main using ops mode. I can verify that using a BLI loco that talks back when a cv is changed. I'm at a loss as to how to be able to revive the big boy. The only option that I see at this point is to get a PR3 & try to revive it that way. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas on what may have happened or how to get it working again, I'm all ears.
Thanks
No, I didn't confirm CV 17 & 18 and the problem now, is that I can't, since I cannot read any CV on the programming track. Don't know what happened but the problem with the big boy & the Zepher happened at the same time.
I'm not panicking just yet because I think the problem with the Zepher is the reason that I can't do anything with the big boy.
Thanks,
Jamie A
Put it on the program track and write 08 to CV08. That will do a reset and put the address back to 03.
Now on the program track set CV17 and CV18 to the values above and then set CV29, or you can also do this on the main using Ops Mode (Po) programming.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks for the info guys. But not being able to read or write anything on the programming track leaves me pretty much stuck. I don't have ready access to another DCC system, so I guess my only other option at this point is to get a PR3 so that I can do the reset or at least find out what address it is. From what I've read on this forum, a PR3 & a computer running Decoder Pro makes a whole lot more sense & would be much easier than trying to use the Zepher anyway. At least then I wouldn't be making the same mistakes & sending my locos in the ditch!!
Jamie
OOOOHH!! I have never heard of that one. I'll give it a try & let you know.
Just make sure that every decoder except the one you want programmed are off of the main. All NMRA compliant decoders will respond to programming and commands sent to address 00.That's how a broadcast emergency stop is done.
Well.....I gave it a try & unfortunately, it didn't work...Big Boy is still dead.
Guess I'll have to wait until I can get a PR3 or get access to another DCC system. Also, guess I need to get the Zephyr checked out at some point.
Thanks.
forget about reading the CV's, try writing CV's to the decoder using the different programming modes. paged is usually the first option as digitrax stuff prefers it. but some decoders won't respond to it and physical or another option is required. also, i don't think ALL decoders factory reset using 08 in CV08, digitrax do which is why it gives it in the zephyr instructioins. i have NO idea if the decoder you have should or shouldn't work using the methods you have tried, but try others, you never know.
Loksound decoders also reset with CV8=8, so that should work in this case. Have you checked the wiring to the program track? The two wires to the program track do NOT go in adjacent screw terminas on the back of the Zephyr - there's a Ground terminal in between: Program----ground---program If you accidently hooked the track to program and ground, it won't work, but it shouldn;t blow anythign up, either.
Have you checked your programming track? It sound to me like it may be dead, or something has gone wrong with the Zephyr and it's not sending programming commands to the track.
Check the programming track with an AC voltmeter and the Zephyr set to program mode to confirm that there is voltage. You may have a broken or loose wire.
Have checked the connections. I've used a ohm meter to check connections from the Zephyr to the rails, which is good. Not sure if there's supposed to be voltage on the programming track at all times in program mode (yes or no?? & if yes, how much??), but I do get a good voltage pulse (15v) using a volt meter at the rails when a read or write command is sent to the decoder on the program track. I just keep getting the dnd error saying that there is an open on the programming track. It doesn't matter what loco I put on it or what program mode (tried them all), same error. If I put a resistor across the rails, the error changes to dna which is no ack from the decoder. I sort of suspected the Zephyr at first, but now I'm really thinking that it does have a problem. I also may be dealing with 2 problems (Zephyr & Big Boy).
I really appreciate the replies, Thanks!!
The output to the programming track should have less power going to it than the normal track. (That's why you should always put an engine on the programming track first after installing a decoder - if there's a short or other problem so you can't read the CV's off the decoder, there isn't enough power to burn out the decoder.) If your programming track has 15V on it, I wonder if you didn't wire it up to the regular power output somehow?? I would double/triple check that everything is correct there.
Worst comes to worst, I would disconnect everything and do it all over again...connect two wires to the Zephyr's programming track output, connect the wires to a section of track. Could be overkill but sometimes doing that you uncover something you missed previously, like a short or a wire connected to the wrong terminal (as Randy pointed out in an earlier post).
BTW, does the Zephyr otherwise work OK?? I mean, can you call up and run locomotives on your layout, but it's just the programming track that's not working??
davidmbedard AlienKingYou can program on the main without knowing the decoder's address. First, take ALL other engines off the main. Select address 0, then write 08 to CV 08 on the main. When you write to address 0, all decoders on the main should respond to it. Wrong advice. To program on the main line, you need to know the address of the locomotive, and the OP does not. The Zephyr has 2 sets of leads, 2 for Rail A and B, and 2 for the programming track. David B
AlienKingYou can program on the main without knowing the decoder's address. First, take ALL other engines off the main. Select address 0, then write 08 to CV 08 on the main. When you write to address 0, all decoders on the main should respond to it.
Wrong advice.
To program on the main line, you need to know the address of the locomotive, and the OP does not.
The Zephyr has 2 sets of leads, 2 for Rail A and B, and 2 for the programming track.
David B
AlienKing is right, if you don't know the address of a decoder, you can do Ops mode programming to address 0. Short address 0 is the broadcast address and most decoders will accept Ops mode programming commands to the broadcast address. This does not appear to be an NMRA requirement, however, but a recommendation, so it is still possible that the decoder is OK if it does not take Ops mode broadcast programming.
It definitely sounds like there is something wrong with your Zephyr, since you say you can no longer program any decoders on the programming track.
Since the engine runs fine on DC, I suspect that the decoder is fine and just does not support Ops mode programming to the broadcast address.
The programming track outputs should not have any voltage on them except when it is actually sending out the programming commands.
One other thing you can try is "Blast mode" programming. To do this, in the Zephyr set Option switch 7 to closed. Warning! - I have never tried this and take no blame if everything blows up! I have read that "blast mode" programming is an undocumented feature of the Zephyr that uses full track power for programming. It sends the programming commands out the track outputs, so you will need to remove all other engines from the layout. If you want to try this, you may want to do a search of Zephyr blast mode programming to read about it first.
wjstix The output to the programming track should have less power going to it than the normal track. (That's why you should always put an engine on the programming track first after installing a decoder - if there's a short or other problem so you can't read the CV's off the decoder, there isn't enough power to burn out the decoder.) If your programming track has 15V on it, I wonder if you didn't wire it up to the regular power output somehow?? ...
The output to the programming track should have less power going to it than the normal track. (That's why you should always put an engine on the programming track first after installing a decoder - if there's a short or other problem so you can't read the CV's off the decoder, there isn't enough power to burn out the decoder.) If your programming track has 15V on it, I wonder if you didn't wire it up to the regular power output somehow?? ...
The programming track has reduced current, not reduced voltage.
The pulsing voltage as the program commands get sent is correct behavior. It would appear the Zephyr is not detecting the momentary load the decoder puts on the rail to ackowledge the programming. I assume you are using a loco with a regular motor decoder installed when testing. Sound decoders can be wierd when it comes to reading back CV values on a standard program track - and even a plain motor decoder needs a motor (or some load) connected to the orange and grey wires, because this is how it ackowledges the commands - by pulsing the motor. If you just hook a typical motor decoder's red and black wires to the program track, it will take the CV values you send it but will always respond with a DnD since there is no ackowledgement pulse.
One other thing to try before throwing in the towel, assuming you've done all mentioned above, it to do a full reset on the Zephyr, Look in the back of the manual (page 46) for how to set OpSw values - you want to set OpSw39 to Closed to do a complete factory reset. If this still doesn't work, I'd call Digitrax.
wjstix,
The Zephyr seems to work fine in all other regards.
CXS Robert,
I'll check into blast mode. Thanks.
Randy,
As luck would have it, the decoder just happens to be a sound decoder (Loksound2). I tend to agree with you about the diagnosis of the Zephyr. I also had thought about resetting the Zephyr which I did, but no change. I guess that I'll be getting in touch with Digitrax next week.
Thanks again to all who replied for all the suggestions & thoughts. You are all a great bunch of people. That's what makes this hobby so great.
If all you've been trying is soudn decoders - I wouldn;t call it dead yet. I would see if you can;t borrow someone's loco with just a motor decoder, or grab a cheap motor decoder (NCE D13SRJ's are cheap but they are also GOOD decoders so it could be useful - don't get one of the Bachmann ones, they have program track issues too) and hook a motor to it (or that resistor that came with the LT1) and see if you can program and read back that. Having just sound decoders isn;t a valid test, most all of them generally have problems with program tracks. Components can fail, but you are getting the proper pulse when program data is sent, and about the only way you can well and good damage the program track is if you connected track voltage to it accidently.
Thanks Randy,
I'll definitely give that a try. It'll be a bit before I can try it though, unless I can borrow one from someone. I know that I haven't accidently applied track power to the prog. track because it has always been seperate from the layout track.
I got my PR3 today & hooked it up in standalone mode bypassing the Zephyr. I put the Big Boy on the prog track, addressed it to address 7 (just picked one) & VOILIA!!...the Big Boy lives!! It is running on the layout as I am typing this. It is good to hear & see it running again. I will also try using the PR3 with Zephyr to try to verify whether there is a problem with it or not. Decoder Pro sure makes things MUCH simpler than trying to program using a throttle (never again). That's probably what happened in the first place.
The only problem?? that I seem to have at this point is that the loco runs in the opposite direction from what the direction switch on the throttle is set to (goes in rev when throttle is set to forward & vice versa). I'll play around with it some more & maybe get a handle on it. For now, I'm just happy that it's running again.
Thanks for all the replies & help in trying to solve this.
If you're using DecoderPro you may have checked the box for reverse normal direction of travel. It's possible the decoder is wired backwards but it's a factory install and it's usually pretty obvious which end of a steam locomotive is the front. So I'm going with the extra bit set in CV29 reversing it. CV29 should be an even number for a properly wired decoder to go forward when the direction control is set to forward.
I'll check on CV29. Regarding the factory install, it did run the correct way before the decoder got scrambled so I don't think that that's an issue. It was set to forward in DecoderPro, I checked on that when I noticed it running opposite of what it should have been. For now, I set it to reverse & it is working fine.
Well, if you had to set CV29 to reverse to go forward, the wiring is messed up. If there's an 8 or 9 pin plug in the wiring you might have reveresed that if you had the decoder out, but the 9 pin plugs are usually keyed and you can't mess that up.You can put an 8 pin plug in backwards but the headlight would be messed up too.I don't know on thatparticular loco how the motor hooks up to the decoder - if it's not keyed in some way that is a place things could get flipped.
That very well may be...I did have the decoder out when i was making continutiy checks on the loco. The decoder is in the tender attached with double sided sticky tape, (which came loose from the support it was stuck to while the tender cover was off) and has a 8 pin connector connected to a socket on a small board also in the tender with a harness that goes to the loco). I'll definitley check it out. BTW, the lights are in sync with the physical direction that the loco is going, (meaning loco going forward, front light on). I thought I had made sure that the connector went back the same way that I had pulled it off, but who knows... It wouldn't be the first time.