A few days ago,on another post,Locoworks gave me a valuable information concerning my older type DCS100,stating that it can't give me access to all the 28 functions that are normally available on newer models.In fact it can only allow me to access 8 functions and I certainly believe that.
I've purchased an Athearn N scale Big Boy and have operated it on the club's layout and I can say that I enjoyed the 12 functions I could access with the club's DT400R so I ordered one for myself,and then I'm being informed that the DT400R also falls short in the function department.
I realize that I'll have to do something for the DCS100 but I'm questioning myself about the DT400R.What are the 28 functions?I know that the first twelve are of the "operational" type and I have a PR3 ordered that should take care of the programming but what would I be missing in term of operational pleasure by not accessing the other 16 functions with the handheld?
The command station is more of a dilemma though.My DCS100 is the older type but still brand new (never installed,tested only).I'm not considering trying to sell it as it would be giving it away.Having it re-chipped is an option but sending it and waiting,plus the cost of the upgrade and shipping both ways isn't appealing me much honestly.So I'm considering buying a new command station and use my DCS100 as a booster and/or a reversing module.But then I'm faced with three choices,the DCS50 basic,the DB150 or a modern DCS100.My layout will be of modest size with never more than 3 or 4 N scale locos running at the same time so power isn't an issue for me.Would the DCS50 fill the bill for all the functions (with the DT400) or do I need the more powerfull ones?If so,does the DB150 fit the task or should I invest for the DCS100?I don't mind paying the right price for satisfying operation but don't want to throw money away.
How functions above F12 are used varies from decoder manufacturer to decoder manufacturer.
The two companies that are best known for using functions above F12 are MRC and MTH. Here is how their definitions compare for a couple of decoders:
MRC Brilliance (used in Athearn locomotives, such as your Big Boy)
F0 Headlight on/off; Double-click: Sound on/offF1 Bell on/offF2 HornF3 Air release sound/Accessory light #1 on/offF4 Coupling soundF5 Brake release (idle) / brake squeal (moving)F6 Dynamic brake on/offF7 Uncoupling leverF8 Air hose disconnect air burst soundF9 Engine cooling fanF10 Rail wheel clickety-clack on/off (only when train is moving)F11 Air compressorF12 Sound on/offF13 Short air release/accessory light function #2 on/offF14 Coupling noiseF15 Air pumpF16 "Associated loco sound"F17 Short air releaseF18 Select Bell type (CV, too)F19 Demo sample horns/whistlesF20 Bell ring rate (CV, too)F21 Change bell volume (use F1 to turn off bell after adjustment) (CV, too)F22 Change horn/whistle volume (CV, too)F23 Change diesel rumble volume (CV, too)F24 Dynamic brake volume (CV, too)F25 Brake squeal volume (CV, too)F26 Safety valve popF27 Safety valve popF28 Short air release
Some of the things they handle via function keys (such as selecting the type of bell or whistle or setting volume levels) are things that can also be handled by programming a configuration value (CV), so it's not absolutely necessary to have access to that function to be able to make that selection or adjust the setting. I've marked those as "(CV, too)".
MTH:
F0 Headlight on/offF1 BellF2 WhistleF3 Locomotive on/offF4 Passenger/freight announcements ("All Aboard!")F5 Cab interior light; All lighting on/offF6 Engine sounds on/off (mut button)F7 Master volumeF8 Smoke on/offF9 2 short whistle tootsF10 3 short whistle tootsF11 Coupler slack runout soundF12 One-shot Doppler sound effectF13 Extended start up sound sequenceF14 Extended shut down sound sequenceF15 Labored chuff on/offF16 Drifting chuff on/offF17 Smokestack sound volumeF18 Short whistle tootF19 Coupler close soundF20 Resets the engine back to factory defaults (except for the address)F21..F24 Idle Sounds 1 - 4.F25 Brake sounds on/offF26 Random voices from the cab on/offF27 Clickety-clack soundF28 Train wreck sound
As these tables show, there are very few standards for which function controls which sound.
The good news for Digitrax Zephyr and most Super Chief users is that when Digitrax brings out a throttle capable of handling 28 functions (such as the DT402 displayed at shows this summer), you should be able to just start using it without having to upgrade anything in the command station. These command stations don't care what function number is being sent by the throttle, they just pass it along. A current example of this is the ability to use DecoderPro's built in throttle to access functions up to F28 when used with a computer interface and a Zephyr or Super Chief.
If your DCS100 dates from 1999 or earlier, you'll be limited to functions up to F8, and I'd recommend sending it in to have it updated, as DCS100s built after 1999 handle functions in the manner I described above. Once you've done that, and once you have your PR3, you'll be able to use DecoderPro's built-in throttle to test out all 28 functions.
Personally, I'm not very excited by most of the sounds the manufacturers offer in the F13-F28 range, but that's just a matter of my own tastes.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
There have been a few posts on this subject in the past, the general consensus beings that any functions over 12 is a gimmick and not appealing to most posters. In fact the majority of these modelers where using 6-7 functions at the most. I myself regularly use only Light, Horn, Bell, Start up, Mute and Shut down for a total of 6 functions. I own a Power Cab system capable of 28 functions however I did not and will not activate that feature, it is not needed.
To upgrade your DCS100, there is a well known modeler in Québec city that can assist you in getting the required part from Digitrax and show you how to perform the upgrade yourself. Send my an email and I will give you his name, I am sure you already know him.
Jack W.
wjstix wrote:You don't need to do anything to your command station, just plug in the new throttle. For example, I use a Digitrax Zephyr that has only 8 functions on it's control panel. I bought a UT-4 walkaround throttle which uses 12 functions. By plugging it into the Zephyr, I get all 12 functions when using the UT-4. If you use a DT400 with 28 functions, you'll get all 28 if you plug it into your DCS100.
Unfortunately this does not apply to the first generation of DCS100.
Thank you guys for your kind answers.When I toyed with my Big Boy on the club's layout,I found out that,as been said,most of the sounds are indeed selected by the decoder itself at proper times,leaving only a few (bell,wistle,etc) manually operated and this certainly satisfies me totally.However,I also liked function 12 (shutting sound off) since sometimes I enjoy peace and quiet.But as of now,it seems that this function will not be available to me on my layout but it's no big deal as I have other fine "silent" locos I can use.
As I suspected,most of the higher numbered functions are mostly programmable features that dictate how the lower numbered functions will run,I'll probably leave them as they are anyway as I like how the loco runs with the default set-ups.I still have a steep learning hill to climb before I attempt tweaking CV values.
I also am aware that my BB's decoder is of the "unreliable" type so I'm expecting a failure some day and that a Micro-Tsunami will take it's place.I like to look at the bright side though...the switch should be fairly easy.
i am under the impression that the current DT400 or DT400R can still only operate upto F12, the higher functions can be operated with a computer only at present. on the video of the digitrax presentation one of the speakers said that the NEW duplex radio DT402D would allow control of all 28 functions, but i don't think the current DT400's do.
as to your old DCS100 not being upto the task, i still think the cheapest option you have is to get it upgraded. on a personal note, i am going to get the full duplex set up when it becomes available so at that point i should have the holy grail of systems. i will get all my throttles that can be upgraded to duplex upgraded and replace those that can't with suitable substitutes.
Eariler this year I sent my older DCS100 to Digitrax for a chip upgrade. The cost was $50, which included the return postage. I only have one sound locomotive and don't use more than 4-5 of the available functions. I was sending my DT400R in at the same time as the throttle had made one too many trips to the canyon (basement) floor and had its brains scrambled!
Your DCS100 will give you many more years of service, so I highly recomend that you send it to Digitrax for a chip upgrade.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Original DCS100's only had 5 functions. Current production does F8. An old one can be sent to Digitrax for an upgrade but call first.
DT400 throttle handle 13 functions (F0 - F12). Digitrax firmware uses the throttle to handle functions above F8 so the command station doesn't need upgrading. This is why a Zephyr can handle to F12 using a DT400 throttle or UT4.
All of the new to be released DT402's will have up to F28 and no changes to the DCS100's will be required.
This forum's members are wonderful people,I expected good informations and that's exactly what I got.Thanks very much.Breaking down all this info,I've been able to evaluate my situation and come up with a conclusion.Now decision time has come and I still have a few questions as to what are my best options.
The bullet proof solution is to buy a new DCS100 no doubt,but what does a DCS100 do that a much cheaper DB150 doesn't?I'll never have my layout computer operated and I believe this is the difference but could be wrong.
And if I do buy a new command station,I've been told that my actual DCS100 could be used as a booster.But then would it still need to be upgraded?I will need to power a loop on my layout and read that boosters could do this as they have the polarity reversing feature,does my DCS100 have it also?
I'll never use more than 7 or 8 functions anyway with the handheld,so is there any point for me to wait for the newer DT402?Could I regret not waiting?
I know myself enough to know that I will never use all the gimmicks that are available.I'm looking forward to simple but flawless operation.Push a button and hold for the wistle,toggle a few other functions on and off and I'm happy.Sound is indeed fun as long as it stays simple.Thanks.
mfm37 wrote: Original DCS100's only had 5 functions. Current production does F8. An old one can be sent to Digitrax for an upgrade but call first.All of the new to be released DT402's will have up to F28 and no changes to the DCS100's will be required.
i would like to say the 'current' production DCS100 does do F28 ( did you miss out the '2'?? ), but digitrax don't produce a throttle to access functions above F12 at the minute, they can be accessed using a PC with suitable interface and software.as pointed out the DT402 will give access to functions above F12. can anyone confirm that a zephyr can access F28 with a PC??
F9 - F28 are not part of the Digitrax command station. The throttle creates the command and sends it to the command station via loconet.
The command station just passes the message on to the booster. For that reason, any loconet throttle or compatible computer program with 28 functions can turn them on and off.
It should work with a DB150 as well as a DCS150. It may even work with the old DCS100's but they won't have F5- F8 because those functions are controlled by the command station.
locoworks wrote:...can anyone confirm that a zephyr can access F28 with a PC??
Jacktal
Please reread my previous post, we at the local Trois-Rivières club have a member that upgraded himself 3 first generation DCS100. I told you how to go about it in my first post.
Jacktal wrote:... what does a DCS100 do that a much cheaper DB150 doesn't?I'll never have my layout computer operated and I believe this is the difference but could be wrong...
Jacktal wrote:...And if I do buy a new command station,I've been told that my actual DCS100 could be used as a booster.But then would it still need to be upgraded?I will need to power a loop on my layout and read that boosters could do this as they have the polarity reversing feature,does my DCS100 have it also?...
Jacktal wrote:...I'll never use more than 7 or 8 functions anyway with the handheld,so is there any point for me to wait for the newer DT402?Could I regret not waiting?I know myself enough to know that I will never use all the gimmicks that are available.I'm looking forward to simple but flawless operation.Push a button and hold for the wistle,toggle a few other functions on and off and I'm happy.Sound is indeed fun as long as it stays simple.Thanks.
AGAIN
If your DCS100 is capable of accessing F0 through F8, it is as new as it can get.
F9 through F12 are handled by the newer throttles.
F13 through F28 will also be handled from the new DT402 series throttles. All DT400 throttles will be upgradeable to DT402. Once upgraded, they will handle 28 functions. This info is from A J Ireland.
Martin Myers
BTW, it's actually 30 functions. F0 forward and F0 reverse are each a function. F0 through F28 is 29-count them.
David is correct. The DT400 is fully capable of providing the functions from F0-F12 via the DB150. I won't say I use them regularly, because I don't, but I have had use of the buttons and their associated functions numerous times over the past three years. All of them. Just as a frinstance, I often use F10 to get the voice on the QSI's telling me what the scale speed of my engines is in mph.
It seems Digitrax got it wrong on their website, or else they goofed on the DT400/DB150 interface.
-Crandell
I've visited Digitrax's website for the Nth time and I finally noticed some discrepancies in their description of their products.Are these printing errors?That's what I guess it is.
They state that a DT400 when coupled to a DB150 (Super Empire Builder set) will handle 13 functions (F0 through F12).But then they say that the same DT400 when linked to a DCS100 (Super Chief set) will support 14 functions (F0 through F12)...I still count 13 so wich is true?
And they also state that the DCS50 (Zephyr set) will support 10 functions (F0 through F8) wich add up to 9 in my mind?And they don't say what happens if one uses a DT400 with this system since that's not what this system was intended for to start with.
However,I couldn't find what I was looking for...datas for out of production command stations.
F0 forward is considered one function.
F0 reverse is considered another function.
That gives you "two" functions on the F0 button. Have a look at a 4 function wired decoder. It has white, yellow, green, violet function wires.
White and yellow are on F0, green on F1, violet on F2. But, it's a four function decoder.
davidmbedard wrote:So I guess my DT400r and DB150 is a fluke then.....because I use F9-12 on a regular basis....David B
selector wrote:David is correct. The DT400 is fully capable of providing the functions from F0-F12 via the DB150. I won't say I use them regularly, because I don't, but I have had use of the buttons and their associated functions numerous times over the past three years. All of them. Just as a frinstance, I often use F10 to get the voice on the QSI's telling me what the scale speed of my engines is in mph.It seems Digitrax got it wrong on their website, or else they goofed on the DT400/DB150 interface.-Crandell
Jacktal wrote:...However,I couldn't find what I was looking for...datas for out of production command stations.