Not so EasyDCC and New MTH Loco...

[jhorvath]

Hi,

 I'm very new, i.e. never used DCC before and am getting ready to install the new EasyDCC system I purchased and try it with the MTH Erie Loco I just purchased.

 In reading through the manuals, the EasyDCC says it supports all 13 NMRA-DCC functions and I can find how to select #0-12.

 The manual for the Loco lists functions 0-28 though...

 So, does this mean I can only use 0-12 with my EasyDCC system or is there some other way to control the rest of the functions?

 Let me know if my question is not intelligible and I'll try to provide more info.

 thanks!!!

Jonathan

[cacole]

Other than the first 5 or 6 functions, you probably won't use any of them.  For example, it's not going to be right for a conductor to yell "All Aboard!" for a freight train. 

But to answer your question:  No, the EasyDCC will not be able to control the extra functions that are in the locomotive's decoder.  But if you read what those extra sounds are, I think you'll realize that they're ones you can easily do without.

[jhorvath]

that's what I was afraid of....

 I may not use more than the first few, but my 5 year old son would... he's dying to hear the "all aboard" and other chatter that some of those higher ones control.

it is possible to have more than one DCC system hooked up to a layout? for example, I'm assuming if I lay out the dough for the MTH DCS system I'll be able to control everything, but would there be a conflict with having two different systems hooked up to the layout? i'm guessing it can be done, but ?

 thanks again

[loathar]

The new MRC PA2 system is capable of functions up to F28. Lots of those higher sound functions are pretty obscure.

[Texas Zepher]

it is possible to have more than one DCC system hooked up to a layout?

yes.  You would have to install a DPDT (center-off) switch to switch between the two.  The switch one way would make the whole layout be DCS and when switched the other it would be DCC.

 i'm guessing it can be done, but ?

There are many threads here talking about doing the the same thing between DC and DCC.  It is the same concept.  I think you would probably easily find them by searching for "DC DCC DPDT".

I do not have any MTH decoders nor CVPs Easy DCC, but I am certain the decoder could be re-programmed to put the sounds you want on the first functions that you do have control over.   for example, I am assuming that "All Aboard" could be assigned to F1 instead of F15 or where ever it is on an MTH.

[dave hikel]

I do not have any MTH decoders nor CVPs Easy DCC, but I am certain the decoder could be re-programmed to put the sounds you want on the first functions that you do have control over.   for example, I am assuming that "All Aboard" could be assigned to F1 instead of F15 or where ever it is on an MTH.

Unfortunately, Texas Zepher, that's not the case.  The DCC side of the MTH decoder does not support function mapping.

Here's a list of the functions.

F0 - headlight on/off

F1 - bell on/off

F2 - whistle/horn on/off

F3 - Start-up/Shut-down

F4 - Passenger or freight announcement initiate and advance

F5 - All lights on/off

F6 - Engine sounds on/off

F7 - Volume (9 steps from off to high)

F8 - Smoke on/off

F9 - Forward signal sound (two toots)

F10 - Reverse signal sound (three toots)

F11 - Coupler slack sound

F12 - One shot doppler on/off

Here's what Johnathan will be missing:

F13 - Extended start-up

F14 - Extended shut-down

F15 - Labored chuff

F16 - Drifting chuff

F17 - Smoke volume low/med/high

F18 - Single short whistle toot

F19 - Coupler close sound

F20 - Feature reset

F21 - Idle sequence 1

F22 - Idle sequence 2

F23 - Idle sequence 3

F24 - Idle sequence 4

F25 - Brake sound on/off

F26 - Cab chatter on/off

F27 - Clickety-clack sound on/off

F28 - Train Wreck sound

 Just my personal opinion, the extended start-up and shut-down, labored and drift chuff, and the idle sound sequences are really worth while.  The idle sequences are each designed around a particular function in an engine service facility like taking on water or lubricating the side rods.  Not my cup of tea, but Kids really like the train wreck sounds.  Adding the DCS system gives a lot more control over the individual features.  DCS essencially has 18 functions with dedicated buttons on the remote as well as 32-38 additional functions that can be accessed through an on screen menu or the top 15 can be mapped to five "soft keys."  Those soft key functions let you trigger each sound individually and adds several other functions that no DCC system can support.   That includes such functions as telemetry for track voltage and signal strength and the ability to play any recorded audio (music, radio traffic, your kid's voice, etc.) through any one locomotive.

[river_eagle]

the decoder pro throttle has 28 functions, you could connect your computer ,run the loco from there, and have all the functions.

[Texas Zepher]

I am certain the decoder could be re-programmed to put the sounds you want on the first functions that you do have control over.  

Unfortunately, Texas Zepher, that's not the case.  The DCC side of the MTH decoder does not support function mapping.

Bummer.  One more reason not to like MTH.

[hornblower]

If you read Classic Toy Trains, you will find that it is apparently quite common for 3 rail O scalers to purchase multiple operating systems to run all of the various brand trains they own.  Sometimes I think the high rail modelers are more fascinated by the operating systems than the trains.  Mention a ZW transformer and their eyes immediately light up.

I find it odd that MTH believes HO scale modelers will be equally willing to purchase multiple operating systems for their layouts.  After all the NMRA has done to standardize DCC, you would think MTH would have paid attention.  Yes, one can operate the MTH locos using DCC, but no, one cannot operate DCC equipped locos using DCS.  Now that I own an advanced DCC system, I will certainly not pay for a DCS system just to get a few extra sounds. 

[jhorvath]

The note from MTH says they have programmed more than what is currently in the NMRA standard so that when they catch up, you'll have a loco that already ready...

 Now, whether or not that is reality???????????????????

 I guess all the research everyone here helped me with on the DCC controller side was great, but little did I know how much I could be impacted by the other side of the equation :)

 

thanks everyone!

Jonathan

[Last Chance]

The QSI already handles the Labored Chuff and Drifting Chuff automatically, these two higher function keys are not necessary.

Basically the simple fact as I see it is you need to buy the MTH's control system to take advantage of all of the higher functions. Half of the functions already exist in my QSI models automatically depending on my engine's situation; with the two I listed as the top ones.

[dave hikel]

Hi all,

The QSI already handles the Labored Chuff and Drifting Chuff automatically, these two higher function keys are not necessary.

Basically the simple fact as I see it is you need to buy the MTH's control system to take advantage of all of the higher functions. Half of the functions already exist in my QSI models automatically depending on my engine's situation; with the two I listed as the top ones.

The MTH engines have automatic labored and drifting chuff as well, but the functions give you the ability to key them in manually as well.  Let's say a train is approaching a grade.  The engine will automatically trigger labored chuff if the grade is steep enough and the train heavy enough.  But, I get to add a level of realism as the engineer by hitting labored chuff manually before the engine reaches the grade.  Like I said, it's just my opinion, but I really like the option to manually trigger labored and drift chuff.

 

Hornblower is quite correct that in O-gauge people are willing to buy and operate more than one command control system.  MTH has DCS and Lionel has TMCC and Legacy (just introduced).  I model in both HO and O and I build layouts full time, so I own and use all the systems.  There are some real pluses and minus to each market's approach to command control.  DCC offers cross compatibility within DCC, but is not backwards compatible with conventional engines.  Lionel was the first to enter the command control market in O-gauge in 1995 with TMCC.  TMCC actually uses the DCC command codes, but it sends the data using the rails as a low power RF antenna, rather then modulating the current frequency.  This was very important for TMCC to gain market acceptance.  People were not going to buy the system if they couldn't run their collection of post-war Lionel, especially if they were limited to only 10 amps from the largest boosters.  So, Lionel's implementation of DCC was backwards compatible and allowed for unlimited amperage.  When MTH came along with DCS, they too made their system backwards compatible with conventional engines.  Since TMCC used published DCC codes, MTH was also able to control TMCC engines with their DCS cab.  Now Lionel has introduced their new "Legacy" system that is backwards compatible with TMCC and conventional engines.  MTH has already added some of the features Lionel put into Legacy with their latest software update.  Case in point, Legacy and DCS both offer a playable whistle or air horn.  All three systems can co-exist on the same tack at the same time, so the compatibility issue isn't as big as you might think.

We like to think that because DCC is an open standard and there are lots of manufacturers that there is also a lot of competition pushing innovation.  Unfortunately, from my perspective being in both scales, DCC innovation is moving much slower than the O-gauge systems.  None of the DCC manufacturers wants to get too far ahead of the crowd for fear that the NMRA won't issue a standard or RP that approves of their innovations.  MTH and Lionel can push things as fast as they can develop new ideas because whatever they say goes for their system.  That competition has locked out other manufacturers from using DCS or Legacy (TMCC is licensed to Atlas, Weaver, and Sunset Models) but it has moved the technological bar pretty fast.  The real proof that there is more competition in O-gauge is the price of the systems.  You can buy both a DCS set and a Legacy set for the price of one NCE pro cab system.  A DCS system has an MSRP of $300 ($250 street price).  You can add a relay box called an AIU that has 10 SPDT momentary relays and 10 SPDT latching relays for another $100.  To duplicate the amperage and control capacity with NCE hardware will cost over $1800.

I'm not saying the grass is necessarily greener on the other side of the fence.  There are plenty of headaches to make both DCS and Legacy run well on large layouts.  But we really shouldn't get too smug about how great DCC is either.  In several ways DCS and Legacy have moved beyond DCC in capability.  And not all the added features are fluff.  Some of them make operations far more prototypical.  Just my .

[claycts]

The Erie is very nice and will fill the place with smoke. I have the full blown Digitrax system using a dt400r and you CAN NOT program hardly anything period on an MTH. Program track with 2 different boosters and decoder pro can not get a readout from the engine. The auto program that MTH has to set the cab numbers as the address was smooth. Momentum on CV 3-4 was a bust really. I LOOKED into getting DCS but that is not in my future, layout is just to big to play the toggle game for one engine.

MTH is very hard to get information from as far as future for DCC and us that want to tweak the product. Just enjoy what you get with the ERIE like I am and just get another DCC unit so you can tweak away. SOundtraxx and LOK are neat with there functions and QSI is rock solid with theres.

Have fun

[dave hikel]

Hi claycts,

Momentum on CV 3-4 was a bust really.

The values for CV's 3 and 4 work backwards of most decoders on an MTH.  The value entered represents scale miles per hour per second (smph/sec).  Enter a value of 1 and that will give you the maximum amount of momentum.

 

[claycts]

Hi claycts,

Momentum on CV 3-4 was a bust really.

The values for CV's 3 and 4 work backwards of most decoders on an MTH.  The value entered represents scale miles per hour per second (smph/sec).  Enter a value of 1 and that will give you the maximum amount of momentum.

OK I set them BOTH t "1" no effect at all. I need to check my OPS program notes and make sure I have the correct key sequence. Gee Operator ERROR what a concept!!

 

[jhorvath]

Hi,

 Finally got the Easy DCC installed. Placed the MTH 28882 Erie on the tracks, programmed the Controller and the train ran; however the was no lights, sounds or smoke. I ran through the trouble shooting steps but that didn't help.

 So, I disconnected the DCC power supply, hooked up my old DC power supply and voila, it runs with lights, sounds and smoke.

 If anyone has this configuration and has been able to get the engine to function properly, I'd appreciate some advice.

Thanks,

Jonathan

[locoi1sa]

  Hi Jonathan

 I do not have any MTH locos but according to the list of functions on an earlier responce you have to press F3 to wake the decoder and F8 to turn on the smoke. Try that and get back to us.

   Pete

[jhorvath]

Hi Pete

 that worked, thanks!

Jonathan