Kato's Unitrack HO turnouts (at least the manual ones) have jumper screws on the bottom that can be configured for power routing or non-power routing. That was what I was alluding to. I believe some other brands also offer this option. Without it you need additional feeders for DCC operations on sidings and spurs.
Kato's N scale Unitrak turnouts don't have this option.
Best!
Randall_Roberts wrote:...Can you tell me if Panel Pro allows you to program routes? Another contrast between the NCE PowerCab and the Zephyr is that the PowerCab as I understand it stores routes (though they call them by the computer programming term "macros"). As far as I know the Zephyr doesn't store routes, as Digitrax built this functionality into their DS64 stationary decoder turnout controllers. I know some people think the Zephyr stores routes because you program the DS64 routes from the Zephyr, but as far as I know the functionality is all in the DS64.I think that in the long term the lack of routes in the Zephyr itself may hurt Digitrax, as Bachmann has introduced HO E-Z Track turnouts with DCC stationary decoders built in. I expect to see more manufacturers follow suit, which ultimately would make the DS64 useless in layouts using these newer turnouts. Best!
Randall_Roberts wrote: Kato's Unitrack HO turnouts (at least the manual ones) have jumper screws on the bottom that can be configured for power routing or non-power routing. That was what I was alluding to. I believe some other brands also offer this option. Without it you need additional feeders for DCC operations on sidings and spurs.Kato's N scale Unitrak turnouts don't have this option. Best!
i see where you were going now. being only used to peco track, that is not an option. you have to feed wires from a bus or the track to bypass the frog so the frog switching only affects the frog and not the routes from it. that is the norm for me.
Crandell;
Thanks for your objective remarks. What you said makes a great deal of sense.
Robert;
The point of Panel Pro, as I understand it, is to allow users create graphic on-screen virtual panels for turnout control. This would require the computer to be turned on while running trains. I even read a post on another forum by a person who got a touch screen just so he wouldn't have to use a mouse in Panel Pro to switch turnouts.
You make good points about storing routes in the turnout controller vs. the command station. And I am well aware of the PowerCab limitations compared to the DS64's. But remember, if routes require switching on more than one DS64, then they must be connected via LocoNet.
The tradeoff, as I see it, comes into play with turnouts that have DCC built in. I love the simplicity of the Bachmann turnouts. There is no turnout wiring, everything runs off the rails. How they are assigned their addresses I don't know, but the documentation does not indicate that they use locomotive addresses and I had not heard before that B'mann E-Z Commander could not send commands to stationary decoders. Now that I have HO up for a while maybe I should approach B'mann for some evaluation units. As for controlling them with macros or routes, if the do indeed use stationary decoder addresses then one should be able to use macros in the PowerCab to switch them. It would be nice to hear from someone who has actually used them.
But my point in bringing up the B'mann DCC turnouts is not the product itself, but that it sets a new standard for other track manufacturers measure up to. I love the idea of not needing DS64s for my turnouts. But there will need to be a way to program routes for them regardless of the track brand.
As far as the comment that needing the manual for a Zephyr is an "urban legend" perpetrated by people who don't own Zephyrs... I don't think so.
Several posters above have referred to their needing to use the manual, and in Joe Fugate's DCC CLINIC forum, there are 6 posts, on by Joe himself.
It's a matter of opinion, certainly, but it's also a fair criticism and not a smear campaign.
I admit it. I'm impatient. I want to hook up wires and run trains, not pore over a manual for a couple of hours.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
There's really no difference between reliable DC wiring and reliable DCC wiring. At least not at the track. Toggle switches connected to sidings will still turn off power on DCC. Power routing turnouts will still power route. They are not needed, but won't cause any trouble. As a side benefit, they would make troubleshooting easier.
Additional feeders and larger bus wire to gain more reliable current levels at the track just make sense and allow for more reliable running no matter your power choice. We proved this when testing the NTRAK wiring RP a couple of years ago. DCC is less forgiving because major voltage drop will result in loss of signal. With DC, you just turn the throttle up some more to overcome voltage drop. We spend thousands of dollars making our miniature empires as real as detailed as possible. Why is there always a tendency to short change the electrical part?
DCC friendly turnouts and powered frogs work equally well with DC. Keep in mind that a short is still a short whether DC or DCC. DCC equipment is more sensitive in that it will detect and shut down faster. The short occurs on DC as well, you just don't always notice it. Turn the lights off and watch for sparks while running across turnouts.
As far as upgrading the Zephyr starter set. Many of the features mentioned thus far are available with additional hardware from Digitrax. I wonder how much extra it will cost to add multiline displays, routes, encoder, recall stacks to a Zephyr? How much of the $140 towards a DT400 will be included in the "new" Zephyr's price? Wouldn't want to second guess Zana Ireland's business plan but she's been doing pretty good so far.
Don't know where to find reliable figures on club system use. I do know that a poll of N Scale clubs found thet 85%-90% of those using DCC use Digitrax. Unfortunately that link is on my other computer at the moment. At the club level, Chief or Powerpro would be the most likely candidates.
Martin Myers
CTValleyRR wrote: As far as the comment that needing the manual for a Zephyr is an "urban legend" perpetrated by people who don't own Zephyrs... I don't think so.Several posters above have referred to their needing to use the manual, and in Joe Fugate's DCC CLINIC forum, there are 6 posts, on by Joe himself.It's a matter of opinion, certainly, but it's also a fair criticism and not a smear campaign.I admit it. I'm impatient. I want to hook up wires and run trains, not pore over a manual for a couple of hours.
While I value highly Joe Fugate's opinion, he has never owned a Digitrax system. He doesn't like Digitrax interface that is his own prerogative and I respect it. From this thread and other I gather the majority of Zephyr users, me included, don't need to always look up the manual for usual tasks.
My feeling is that ease of use is your primary concern, in that case NCE Power Cab (I own one) and MRC Prodigy appears to be your best choices.
Jack W.
Randall_Roberts wrote:...The point of Panel Pro, as I understand it, is to allow users create graphic on-screen virtual panels for turnout control. This would require the computer to be turned on while running trains...
DS64 can control accessory decoders that get their commands from the track as you said through the command station. It can control routes on other loconet accessory decoders including embedded routes. Local pushbuttons can be set up to control its routes.
DS 64 can also work with other DS64's through loconet with no connection to the command station. You do have to add a simple resistor/capacitor termination to loconet if used on a non loconet CS.
With auxilliary power and local pushbuttons, they'll work anywhere, including a non DCC layout. In other words, they would be great for a layout that can be run on DC or DCC.
Unfortunately, all of the above will require some manual reading and on line investigation of Digitrax information sheets. Definitely not for the plug in and go folks. Guess they will need a switch-it or snap-it. Nope, they require RTFM as well. Perhaps the Hare. At its price, it should come with its own roll of TP.
mfm37 wrote:DS64 can control accessory decoders that get their commands from the track as you said through the command station. It can control routes on other loconet accessory decoders including embedded routes. Local pushbuttons can be set up to control its routes.
Yes, but as I understand the documentation, if a route on one DS64 needs to switch turnouts connected to another DS64 then the DS64s must be connected via LocoNet. I've programmed some simple routes, but non that required switching on multiple DS64s so far so I haven't tested this.
Randall_Roberts wrote: mfm37 wrote: DS64 can control accessory decoders that get their commands from the track as you said through the command station. It can control routes on other loconet accessory decoders including embedded routes. Local pushbuttons can be set up to control its routes.Yes, but as I understand the documentation, if a route on one DS64 needs to switch turnouts connected to another DS64 then the DS64s must be connected via LocoNet. I've programmed some simple routes, but non that required switching on multiple DS64s so far so I haven't tested this.
mfm37 wrote: DS64 can control accessory decoders that get their commands from the track as you said through the command station. It can control routes on other loconet accessory decoders including embedded routes. Local pushbuttons can be set up to control its routes.
That's true, but it's as simple as assigning each DS64 a unique address and plugging them all into Loconet. Then each DS64 route can throw a switch no matter which DS64 is controlling it.
It can even trigger another route that is on a different DS64. It is not at all difficult.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
CTValleyRR wrote: As someone who is trying to decide WHICH entry level DCC system to purchase, I have to say that, if features alone were the deciding point, the Zephyr would win hands down. However, I am definately NOT a user's manual reader, and I have read A LOT of posts to the effect that the Zephyr pretty much REQUIRES you to read the documentation.I'm still wondering if it's worth saving a few bucks and gaining some features to have to actually crack a book to figure out how to run the darn thing. So, I'm still on the fence, not on the wagon.
As someone who is trying to decide WHICH entry level DCC system to purchase, I have to say that, if features alone were the deciding point, the Zephyr would win hands down. However, I am definately NOT a user's manual reader, and I have read A LOT of posts to the effect that the Zephyr pretty much REQUIRES you to read the documentation.
I'm still wondering if it's worth saving a few bucks and gaining some features to have to actually crack a book to figure out how to run the darn thing.
So, I'm still on the fence, not on the wagon.
Randall Roberts published a very readable manual to go with the Zephyr. You have to buy it separately but it does cover everything the Digitrax manual covers but in an easier to read format and guides thru all of the procedures buy giving you hands on assignments that show you how to do things and waht differences exist. However, you should know that once you know how to use the Zephyr, it is but a short jump to the next Digistrax system you'll upgrade to. In effect, even though you are going to use a DT400, for example, it is but a short step to learn some of the differences, but they have more to do with the display you'll see on the DT-400 that anything else.
Irv
Like CTValleyRR, I too am looking to enter into DCC and am looking at the various features. I like the option of the Z's jump ports to use as additional throttles without the expense of buying a UT4 or DT400. Somone earrlier mentioned Digitrax should add a 2nd throttle to Z. CVP EasyDCC is already there. Same with a built-in computer interface--CVP EasyDCC. What would really tip the scale (for me) to the Z would be 4 things.
1. Asthetics. The keypad/LED display is so 1970's; reminds me of my first digital watch. And it's too cryptic. Add a multiline LCD display with a backlight and Real buttons-- not those little knubby thingamadoodles. And make the entire keypad/display 1--2" larger than current.
2. Selectable user inteface; For the entering newbie like myself, you could have the menu driven system like NCE/MRC; or for advanced users, you could choose direct programming. think Linux operating systems--the graphical user interface (GUI /(window&mouse)) is all most people ever need. It allows me to do most anything I want-open, close and operate the programs along with making some changes in the settings without needing a lot of kowledge of how the computer works. If I want to be a power user, I can open a terminal window (command line) to acces and manipulate advanced features. The point is: I can choose!
3. Built in computer interace--serial, USB or Bluetooth; it doesn't really matter. But here again CVP EasyDCC already has that function, too.
4. As stated before--add an On/Off switch.
But keep the jump ports.
Tom
TxPRRFan, et. al.;
Although I know of very few people who have CVP EasyDCC systems, the ones who do swear by them. The reason that I don't bring them into conversations about starter systems at the outset is that at $279 for the Basic System they cost about twice as much to get into as a Zephyr or PowerCab. Also, they are designed to be panel mounted which is only convenient for large layouts. If I were starting a large permanent layout, I would definitely give EasyDCC some serious consideration.
corsair7 wrote:Randall Roberts published a very readable manual to go with the Zephyr. You have to buy it separately but it does cover everything the Digitrax manual covers but in an easier to read format...
Irv, et. al.;
I didn't publish this book. But I'm aware of a number of other people named Randall Roberts.
I'd be very interested in reading this book and possibly reviewing it for my About.com site. Do you have a link to a source?
Probably every one is referring to "Mastering the Zephyr" a book that was put out by Loy's Toys. http://www.loystoys.com/loystoys/mastering-zephyr.html I am not sure if it is still available as Loys Toys is shutting down.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum