dcc short

[nw611]

hello all. i am having an issue and not sure where it is coming from. i am in the process of building the first section of my first layout. (i am modeling the n&w late steam early diesel so that puts me in about 1958 or so.) anyway, im working on the williamson terminal and the first two crossovers are number 8 custom line code 83. i decided to try them out and am not necessarrilly sold on one brand of turnout. (are these turnouts even good by average standard? they seem good to me because there is no black frog and cars / locomotives travel through them with no derails) i am having trouble with these causing a short.  i just cannot figure out how to get these things wired right. they have the ring terminal coming off the stock rail side. i am using digitrax dcc and the the class a's ( 2-6-6-4) seem to have the most trouble with them. (they are both brand new, and ran fine at local club layout) i have tried everything from not wiring them to trying every combination i can think of with no luck. it seems that the turnouts work perfect when set to cross over to each other, however when going straight through from the stock rail side, it shorts out as soon as the lead truck hits the turnout side of the frog. then if i rewire them differently, then the opposite happens, where they are fine except for crossing each other. there is no loop anywhere, this is just two parrellel tracks with a number 8 crossover. (single) then another set of tracks with another single crossover. just a straight yard section about 8 feet long no turntable or anything yet....thanks for the time and look forward to hearing from you.  

[gandydancer19]

Is this a pre-assembled crossover, or are you building a crossover from two turnouts?

[nw611]

i have built a crossover from two turnouts. they are parralel with two no 8 rh turnouts back to back. the other is two parralels with two number 8 lh back to back on a seperate section of track not connected to the first in any way shape or form.

[nw611]

well what is the best way to go about this situation then? i do have some short wheelbase locos, but so far they seem fine. is it possible that the 70" drivers on the a's are crossing the frog and shorting it? but this shouldn't be possible with the frogs dead. (As of last testing i have the frogs dead) the rs-3's/11's and geeps are fine (all atlas). the 0-8-0's (proto) are fine. class j's (bli) y's (proto, pcm) k's (spectrum) are fine....the a's seem to do it exclusively the more i run these tests..... the j's and a's are both made by bli and both have 70" drivers, but only the a's are shorting.........has anyone had probs like this before? thanks for all help

[maxman]

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to install a pair of insulated rail joiners in the joint between the two turnouts?  If not, maybe you'd want to try that.

Edit: I mean the joint where the track crosses between one track and the other.

[maxman]

Oh, I don't know.  I thought that the general rule was that insulators got used when the frogs of two turnouts faced each other.  Maybe that isn't necessary with the turnouts he is using. 

[wjstix]

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to install a pair of insulated rail joiners in the joint between the two turnouts?  If not, maybe you'd want to try that.

Edit: I mean the joint where the track crosses between one track and the other.

Why?  makes no sense.  Those rails have the same polarity....why do they need to be isolated?

David B 

I'd say try that and see. I've had turnouts that caused a short in that situation and needed to be insulated.  

[nw611]

well all, i am back and the problem is now solved....i feel like a huge horses ***....i did try removing rail joiners and installing insulated ones....that made it worse, which then made me think it was an electrical thing (maybe bad solder on a feeder, broken loco contact, etc.) so i started fishing.....found no loose wires, bad solders......but i did do something that i hadn't tried yet......CLEAN THE TRACK THOROUGHLY.....it was alot dirtier than it looked...and when it's all the same color.....it's easier to not notice.....i never thought brand new track and brand new turnouts would be so filthy!!!!! one more thing that contributes to this.....no 8 turnouts (at least the atas mark iv) have long dead spots when frogs left dead.....couple this with dirty track, and voila! you have my frustrating problem. i never thought the long wheelbase and pickup of a class a would foul out, but the entire loco and tender is on both frogs at the same time, so with dirty track, there you go. apparently the locos wheels/pickups may need some attention as well. sorry for wasting everyones time, but i appreciate the input anyway. just another novice mistake here....but maybe a reminder to everyone that reads also.                                                   --later-- 

[nw611]

Your best bet is to remove any wires from them and just run with them dead. 

David B

i tried to wire them according to books, diagrams, etc, but one way or another, the locos short out...do i have to install a switch machine to power the frogs? i would just like to use ground throws for now.......

[nw611]

thanks again for the responses and the input...., but what is the "favorite turnout" anyway? like the most reliable, easiest to use, or best for dcc? im sure this will be a can of worms....but before i get into this all the way, i want to buy what will work the best.....by the way, i eventually plan on upgrading most mainline turnouts with slow mo switch machines....if it matters.

[JulesB]

The BEST turnout for DCC is handlayed (fasttracks) IMHO.   There is not a really a 'best' commerical turnout, but there are pros and cons to each mfg.

IMHO, I would look more towards which MFG has turnouts that are in gauge.

David B 

I agree. I got em point to point and every other way you can dream up. No shorts ever! Polarity takes care of itself if you build em right.

Unless your Loco is about 3" long there is no need to power the frogs AFAICS.

Jules