Paul3 wrote: bobgrosh,In order:F0: I assume you're MU'ing you DCC decoder equipped passenger cars to your locos. I hope you know that it doesn't make sense for the passenger car lights to have anything to do with movement. Also, loco headlights are not always used, depending on era.No, each car has it's own address... It makes no sense to me to turn on/off the loco lights once moving. So when moving, F0 starts the lights coming on through the length of the train as though the crew was turning them on. This is normally only used at dawn or dusk, and prevents burning up bulbs by having them on all the time.F1: Um, bells also ring on locos when stopped, depending on road and era. And onboard station annoucements? Seriously? You really want to broadcast the sound of an onboard station announcement, something that you never hear from outside the train?On steamers with hand operated bells, the bell goes off shortly after a stop. For mechanical bells, the go off after a minute or so.If you are thinking of the station master arrival, departures, and ambient sounds, those come from a track-side speaker (look up "Fantasonics") system. The on board sound cards in passenger cars do play conductor and passenger boarding and debarking sounds. Doors opening, luggage shuffling, Children when they first spot "grandma", etc. and yes, you can hear them. especially on the open air coaches.F2: I can only imagine that little effect in a yard switcher. It'd be a toot-fest for sure. And on mainline trains, wildly unrealistic. A crossing whistle for under 29? Perhaps I was unclear. If you don't press the F2 button you don't get a toot. If you want two short toots to alert the crew that you are about to move the loco forward, just make sure the loco direction is set to forward, and press F2 once. For the prototypical three toots for backing up. just set the direction to reverse and press F2 once. I did this because DCC is just not responsive enough to provide the rapid toot pattern normally done on real railroads. Other sound cards often use three or four separate keys to accomplish different whistle signals. I programed the SDF in the SFX card to put all the whistle signals on F2 and play the appropriate sound depending on the context of when you press F2. The only automatic toot is the single toot when the loco comes to a stop, and that can be turned off via a CV for road locos. 29? sorry, that is speed step 29. I slow down when approaching a town, It is just convenient to have the entire crossing sequence blown with a single F2 press when approaching the town, at speed step 30 or above, I like to use the Digitrax/Tsunami "Playable Whistle" Again, rather than put the crossing whistle on another Function key, I just made it context sensitive. F3: What is that about? Passenger cars and cabooses would stop listening to...what?Lights and sounds can be activate in the cars from the loco throttle. IE. turning on the marker lights on the loco will also turn on the caboose marker lights. Passenger cars begin turning on vestibule lights in preparation for a stop at a passenger station by "Listening" to the loco. Cars automatically begin listening and figure out which loco is pulling them, and the car order as soon as any loco pulls them through the bounds between two Transponding zones. F3, which normally only makes a coupler crash sound, now serves two purposes. "ON" triggers the coupler crash sound, "OFF" tells the cars to stop listening to the commands set to that loco and wait for another (or possibly the same loco) to re connect to the cars. I had to have a way to tell the cars that they are no longer connected to a loco. After all, once the loco has left the cars on a siding you would not want the sound card in the parked passenger cars playing wheel squeal, brake release or other sounds when the loco is miles away. The F3 key just made sense.F4: This, I get.F5: Huh? But markers are for when the train is moving, too. OK, I wasn't clear on this one. You set the color of the markers when stopped. On real train this might involve changing lanterns. You can change the markers to red green or white depending on the service you are running and what section of the train this loco is assigned to. Once moving the marker lights can not be changed, and F5 serves some other purpose, depending on the loco.F6: Diesels and steamers also smoke while stopped. The auto cutoff of the smoke is controlled by a qualifier in the function setup for all FX3 Digitrax decoders. Just check the FX3 function setup guide for the qualifiers. Also, even though the cab light and smoke use different colored wires on the decoder, they can both be mapped to F6 and each have their own set of modifiers and FX3 effects. Mapping them both to F6 was just one more way to save those precious buttons on the DT400F7: Toggle turnouts? What the heck for? Just use the SWITCH command...that's what it's there for.Switch commands still work. So, a visitor can, in the dark, press the power button (KEYPRESS 1) to illuminate the switch, read the number, press SW (2) then the number (3)(4)(5) then try to figure out if he needs to press (T) or (C) OK, thats six key presses... in the dark... by a visitor. Easier, The visitor see the switch he is approaching is set the wrong way. Press F7. Done. F8: Wouldn't it be better if you could adjust the volume on the move?Sure would be, If I had 12 more functions. F9: Learn mode? What is that? How does that work? Do you have GPS in each loco?No, All I'm using is Transponding. When running in learn mode (F9 ON) I can easily set the max speed for any Transponding zone. Max speed is only used when the loco is released from a throttle, It does not limit the operator. See 10,11 and 12 AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.F10, F11, F12: Again, station annoucements? Here's a thought. Why don't you put a sound playing device at each station? That way, you can remove some of the features needed from a mobile decoder. In any event, I have ridden a lot of trains over the years, and while I've heard conductor's say that they are a "Canton Jct. train" or an "Attleboro train", I've never heard them say the station name for where they are. Most people assume that since they are already there, they know where they are. Conductors will call on the train that they have arrived at a station, but I've never heard it from outside the train.These have nothing to do with sounds. Often we get called to dinner, or a session has to be suspended for some reason. Or I may be running a train and suddenly be asked to help someone else. For those situations: Press F10,11 or 12 depending the station, then press <LOCO> and <DISPatch> The train will slow to the learned speed limits, proceed to the selected station and stop.So my reaction to your list of functions is that I think it's not a viable list. There's a whole lot in there that doesn't make much sense, things that can easily be accomodated using stationary decoders, block detection, and transponding. I might as well list 28 different horns or air releases so as to demand 28 functions. Sorry, I just grabed my list from a file i printed for guest. Didn't know i had to explain them in detail. I hope I did a better job this time.As to using stationary decoders, I can't think on one of these functions that would be better done with stationary decoders. Of course I do have stationary decoder to control turnouts, signals, lots of building lights, trackside sounds and accessories, but they have nothing to do with the actual lights and sounds in the cars and loco. As far as block detection goes, I have 6 BDL cards and not one track wire connected to them. They are all used for Transponding only. So David, IMHO, your $20 is safe...so far.Naaa. Pay Up.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
bobgrosh,In order:F0: I assume you're MU'ing you DCC decoder equipped passenger cars to your locos. I hope you know that it doesn't make sense for the passenger car lights to have anything to do with movement. Also, loco headlights are not always used, depending on era.
No, each car has it's own address... It makes no sense to me to turn on/off the loco lights once moving. So when moving, F0 starts the lights coming on through the length of the train as though the crew was turning them on. This is normally only used at dawn or dusk, and prevents burning up bulbs by having them on all the time.
F1: Um, bells also ring on locos when stopped, depending on road and era. And onboard station annoucements? Seriously? You really want to broadcast the sound of an onboard station announcement, something that you never hear from outside the train?
On steamers with hand operated bells, the bell goes off shortly after a stop. For mechanical bells, the go off after a minute or so.
If you are thinking of the station master arrival, departures, and ambient sounds, those come from a track-side speaker (look up "Fantasonics") system. The on board sound cards in passenger cars do play conductor and passenger boarding and debarking sounds. Doors opening, luggage shuffling, Children when they first spot "grandma", etc. and yes, you can hear them. especially on the open air coaches.
F2: I can only imagine that little effect in a yard switcher. It'd be a toot-fest for sure. And on mainline trains, wildly unrealistic. A crossing whistle for under 29?
Perhaps I was unclear. If you don't press the F2 button you don't get a toot. If you want two short toots to alert the crew that you are about to move the loco forward, just make sure the loco direction is set to forward, and press F2 once. For the prototypical three toots for backing up. just set the direction to reverse and press F2 once. I did this because DCC is just not responsive enough to provide the rapid toot pattern normally done on real railroads. Other sound cards often use three or four separate keys to accomplish different whistle signals. I programed the SDF in the SFX card to put all the whistle signals on F2 and play the appropriate sound depending on the context of when you press F2. The only automatic toot is the single toot when the loco comes to a stop, and that can be turned off via a CV for road locos.
29? sorry, that is speed step 29. I slow down when approaching a town, It is just convenient to have the entire crossing sequence blown with a single F2 press when approaching the town, at speed step 30 or above, I like to use the Digitrax/Tsunami "Playable Whistle" Again, rather than put the crossing whistle on another Function key, I just made it context sensitive.
F3: What is that about? Passenger cars and cabooses would stop listening to...what?
Lights and sounds can be activate in the cars from the loco throttle. IE. turning on the marker lights on the loco will also turn on the caboose marker lights. Passenger cars begin turning on vestibule lights in preparation for a stop at a passenger station by "Listening" to the loco. Cars automatically begin listening and figure out which loco is pulling them, and the car order as soon as any loco pulls them through the bounds between two Transponding zones. F3, which normally only makes a coupler crash sound, now serves two purposes. "ON" triggers the coupler crash sound, "OFF" tells the cars to stop listening to the commands set to that loco and wait for another (or possibly the same loco) to re connect to the cars. I had to have a way to tell the cars that they are no longer connected to a loco. After all, once the loco has left the cars on a siding you would not want the sound card in the parked passenger cars playing wheel squeal, brake release or other sounds when the loco is miles away. The F3 key just made sense.
F4: This, I get.
F5: Huh? But markers are for when the train is moving, too.
OK, I wasn't clear on this one. You set the color of the markers when stopped. On real train this might involve changing lanterns. You can change the markers to red green or white depending on the service you are running and what section of the train this loco is assigned to. Once moving the marker lights can not be changed, and F5 serves some other purpose, depending on the loco.
F6: Diesels and steamers also smoke while stopped.
The auto cutoff of the smoke is controlled by a qualifier in the function setup for all FX3 Digitrax decoders. Just check the FX3 function setup guide for the qualifiers. Also, even though the cab light and smoke use different colored wires on the decoder, they can both be mapped to F6 and each have their own set of modifiers and FX3 effects. Mapping them both to F6 was just one more way to save those precious buttons on the DT400
F7: Toggle turnouts? What the heck for? Just use the SWITCH command...that's what it's there for.
Switch commands still work. So, a visitor can, in the dark, press the power button (KEYPRESS 1) to illuminate the switch, read the number, press SW (2) then the number (3)(4)(5) then try to figure out if he needs to press (T) or (C)
OK, thats six key presses... in the dark... by a visitor.
Easier, The visitor see the switch he is approaching is set the wrong way. Press F7. Done.
F8: Wouldn't it be better if you could adjust the volume on the move?
Sure would be, If I had 12 more functions.
F9: Learn mode? What is that? How does that work? Do you have GPS in each loco?
No, All I'm using is Transponding. When running in learn mode (F9 ON) I can easily set the max speed for any Transponding zone. Max speed is only used when the loco is released from a throttle, It does not limit the operator. See 10,11 and 12 AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.
F10, F11, F12: Again, station annoucements? Here's a thought. Why don't you put a sound playing device at each station? That way, you can remove some of the features needed from a mobile decoder. In any event, I have ridden a lot of trains over the years, and while I've heard conductor's say that they are a "Canton Jct. train" or an "Attleboro train", I've never heard them say the station name for where they are. Most people assume that since they are already there, they know where they are. Conductors will call on the train that they have arrived at a station, but I've never heard it from outside the train.
These have nothing to do with sounds. Often we get called to dinner, or a session has to be suspended for some reason. Or I may be running a train and suddenly be asked to help someone else.
For those situations: Press F10,11 or 12 depending the station, then press <LOCO> and <DISPatch> The train will slow to the learned speed limits, proceed to the selected station and stop.
So my reaction to your list of functions is that I think it's not a viable list. There's a whole lot in there that doesn't make much sense, things that can easily be accomodated using stationary decoders, block detection, and transponding. I might as well list 28 different horns or air releases so as to demand 28 functions.
Sorry, I just grabed my list from a file i printed for guest. Didn't know i had to explain them in detail. I hope I did a better job this time.
As to using stationary decoders, I can't think on one of these functions that would be better done with stationary decoders. Of course I do have stationary decoder to control turnouts, signals, lots of building lights, trackside sounds and accessories, but they have nothing to do with the actual lights and sounds in the cars and loco. As far as block detection goes, I have 6 BDL cards and not one track wire connected to them. They are all used for Transponding only. So David, IMHO, your $20 is safe...so far.
Naaa. Pay Up.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
davidmbedard wrote: Anyways, last time I checked, the Digitrax SFX (the decoder this person is using) is limited to 4 light outputs and just enough sound storage for engine noises (no room yelling at grandma and such).
Anyways, last time I checked, the Digitrax SFX (the decoder this person is using) is limited to 4 light outputs and just enough sound storage for engine noises (no room yelling at grandma and such).
OK, Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGp-ChboAHk
That is my smallest loco.
It has a SFX064D
The newer version has FOUR times as much memory.
That loco has all the chuff, boiler, hiss, brake, cab chatter, (the engineere calls out the mile markers) bell, crossing whistle, one two and three toots,
PLUS The entire rendition of Dixie featured in the video.
The SX064 has SIX lighting outputs. Plus 18 sound functions.
The Loco was to small for the current "G" scale decoder, So I had to use an older one without transponding. The motor decoder has 8 function outputs.
Because neither the SFX064 nor the motor decoder has Transponding, the loco has a TF4, Thats 4 more lighting outputs.
So It has a total of 16 function outputs for smoke, lghts and couplers plus 18 trigerable sounds for a total of 34 functions.
OK, so most of those do not need to be controled from the throttle, In fact I ran out of things to connect the wires to, there are at least 6 unused wires. And I'm using four of them just for firebox and smokestack flicker. I was also runing out of room, there are three speakers. The motor decoder had to be cut in half and folded to fit it in the firebox.
Even though most of the functions have been grouped (all the different whistles are on F2) and many are automated, so most of the 34 functions have no corresponding key on the DT400.
Still This loco, like all my locos uses the same key assignements.
Go back and look at my list. F5 if pressed while moving controls a loco specific function. On this loco pressing F5 while moving plays Dixie.
Now where did you get this garbage about not enough room for grandma?
davidmbedard wrote: Wait a minute, the 20 bucks requires that you are able to recall every function up to and including 28. Also, every function has to have universal appeal, not silly things like lighting up passenger coaches.....
Wait a minute, the 20 bucks requires that you are able to recall every function up to and including 28. Also, every function has to have universal appeal, not silly things like lighting up passenger coaches.....
Sure I can, well most of the time, They are the same for all locos, and besides, that is what little labels are for.
OK, let's eliminate the silly lights in the passenger coaches (which would also eliminate the lights and markers in the cabooses.
That still dosen't eliminate the the need for F0.
Do you propose we eliminate F0 and run loco without lights?
davidmbedard wrote: I still dont see the need for 28 functions.My rules...1. You have to be able to remember them.2. They need to have universal appeal (be applicable to more than one application and able to be applicable as a standard ala NMRA).3. Door closing and toilet flushed dont count. 4. Automatic noises dont count (nood need to turn the compressor on and off when it is an automatic function). David B
I still dont see the need for 28 functions.
My rules...
1. You have to be able to remember them.
2. They need to have universal appeal (be applicable to more than one application and able to be applicable as a standard ala NMRA).
3. Door closing and toilet flushed dont count.
4. Automatic noises dont count (nood need to turn the compressor on and off when it is an automatic function).
David B
1 I can remeber them. They are the same for every loco.
2 Oh, so no new features should be added unless every single person decideds they need it?
3 I don't have a single function button on my throttle assigned to door closing or toilet flushing. Those features are automated.
4 Don't think I mentioned using a single button for an automatc function.
Pick yer favorite charity and pay up.