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can a dcc layout still have blocks?

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  • Member since
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  • From: florida
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can a dcc layout still have blocks?
Posted by subman on Thursday, June 19, 2008 3:23 PM

I am undecided as to what system I want to implement on my 14x5 HO layout. Whether it be DC or DCC or if possible a combination of the two. I am a sole operator and chances are that 1 or at most 2 trains would be running at the same time. I have 2 brand new MRC 9500 power packs that Iv`e had for 5 years and never used that I would probably use with a Zephyr system. I dont want any of the engines that are on the layout, but not being used to sit there and hum (I could be wrong but I think this is what happens on DCC) so hence this is why I am asking about the blocks.Also is it possible to have a layout wired up DC then flip a switch or more to get DCC wiring? This layout exists as a full scale drawing on the floor of my train room, having been designed by Model Railroad Services.I await your expert advice and thank you for your time.

                                                                   Bob D

Bob D As long as you surface as many times as you dive you`ll be alive to read these posts.

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Thursday, June 19, 2008 3:34 PM

Starting from the middle and working out....

DCC locos sitting on a DCC layout, and not running do not hum.

A DCC layout can have blocks, some people will turn off power to blocks where they want to be sure nothing moves.  More people don't.

What you don't want to do is run the layout on DC and DCC at the same time.  If a train crossed between sections there is a reasonable chance that something would be damaged.

DCC wiring is easier, cheaper, and takes less time.  I wouldn't do what you are asking, if it was me.

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:20 PM

Or, maybe you want to know if you can take a complete DC layout, throw a switch and have it become DCC?  That answer, basically, is "Yes, you can."  Depending on the complexity of your DC layout (multiple cabs, blocks, etc.,) you may have to throw a few switches, but you can make a layout one-or-the-other without a lot of extra work.

It is NOT a good idea to have part of a layout running DCC and part running DC, unless you just can't physically get from one to the other.  (Like one layout is in Timbuktu, and the other is in Kalamazoo.  That's safe.)  But, that's really 2 separate layouts, even if one is a loop inside the other, with no crossovers.  As soon as you put in a crossover, then sooner or later you will run a train across it.  You could fry either your decoder or your whole DCC system.

As many of us have discovered, though, once you've got DCC up and running, you'll never want to go back.  The next day, you'll look at your old engines, log on to the forum, and start a post about "which decoder should I get for this locomotive?"  Yeah, it's that good.

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Posted by fwright on Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:21 PM
 subman wrote:

I am undecided as to what system I want to implement on my 14x5 HO layout. Whether it be DC or DCC or if possible a combination of the two. I am a sole operator and chances are that 1 or at most 2 trains would be running at the same time. I have 2 brand new MRC 9500 power packs that Iv`e had for 5 years and never used that I would probably use with a Zephyr system. I dont want any of the engines that are on the layout, but not being used to sit there and hum (I could be wrong but I think this is what happens on DCC) so hence this is why I am asking about the blocks.Also is it possible to have a layout wired up DC then flip a switch or more to get DCC wiring? This layout exists as a full scale drawing on the floor of my train room, having been designed by Model Railroad Services.I await your expert advice and thank you for your time.

                                                                   Bob D

The ability to run multiple trains in either DCC mode or DC mode, but not both simultaneously is possible and practical.  However, it requires all the wiring for DC block control and intimate knowledge of the status of the locomotives.

The easiest dual mode capability to implement is to wire for DC block control.  When DCC mode is wanted substitute the DCC control system for a DC power pack, and switch all blocks to either "off" or to the DCC system.

As you pointed out, DC locomotives sitting on DCC hum and heat up.  The Zephyr has the ability to manipulate the DCC signal to allow a DC locomotive to be controlled on DCC using address zero, but this is often noisy and not as convenient as one would think.  So when using DCC mode, you will want to turn power off to all sections of the layout where DC locomotives are sitting.

Most modern DCC locomotives will run on DC quite well.  But some decoders get confused, particularly if forms of pulse power are used in DC mode.  Hence, the normal advice is to program decoders to ignore DC and work only on recognized DCC signals.  You won't be able to do this locking of the decoders in DCC mode if you want to run your DCC locos under DC control.

And you have to know which DCC decoders will not work in DC mode, and isolate those locomotives during DC operations.

As you can see, switching modes is not trivial with more than 3 or 4 locomotives.  For this reason, most end up operating in DCC mode almost exclusively, and DC mode is seldom used despite the extra trouble and expense of implementing block control.

Finally, it will take some thinking about switching arrangements to have your MRC power packs available as jump throttles for the Zephyr or wired to the layout for DC mode ops.  You will likely end up with several toggles to flip to change modes - and all must be changed to avoid the dreaded mixing of DC and DCC.

hope this makes sense and helps

Fred W

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Thursday, June 19, 2008 5:02 PM
My layout was originally wired for DC, hence it has blocks, sixteen of them. The layout is set up so that I can use it with DC or DCC on a block by block level. In other words, each block can be switched between DC or DCC but never both at once. I can two DCC trains on the outer loop and a DC train on the inner loop and still have two locos switching the sidings in either DC or DCC mode.

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Posted by modelmaker51 on Thursday, June 19, 2008 5:13 PM

As I understood what the OP was saying, he wants to use the two power packs as extra throttles with the Zepher and the answer to that is yes. They would be hooked up directly to the Zepher and their variable power output will be read by the Zepher and be converted to a DCC control signal as additional DCC throttles.

If your layout has already been wired with blocks, you can leave them as they are, (as I did on my 12x23 layout), switch them all to the same cab, (the one that's hooked up to the Zepher). There are other things you can do with your blocks as you aquire more advanced knowledge.

Jay 

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, June 20, 2008 2:46 PM

My last layout was DC with blocks using an MRC twin to run two trains/engines at the same time. Each block had a switch to assign it to cab 1 or cab 2 of the MRC powerpack. I added a Digitrax Zephyr by putting a switch so that cab 1 got it's power from either the MRC cab 1 or the Zephyr. However after a couple of years I had converted enough engines that I only used the DC option for breaking in or testing new engines.

The "jump throttle" works pretty well with the Zephyr, some engines seemed to like it better than others. Also of course, you can't control any functions like sounds etc. with the jump throttle. I'd say it's good as a temporary thing until you add a walkaround unit (or two).

Stix

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