What DCC is Best?

[boston1943]

I'm "in the market" for a DCC system and I wanted to know what you think is the best starter system on a minimal budget.

Please Help!

[tstage]

boston, 

Along with the Zephyr is also the NCE Power Cab.  Both have their pluses and minuses.  A few questions for you:

1. How big is your layout?
2. How many locomotives do you have?
3. How many do you plan on operating at a given time?
4. Will you be operating solo or with others?
5. What's a "minimal budget" in dollars?
   

Tom

[Driline]

I'm "in the market" for a DCC system and I wanted to know what you think is the best starter system on a minimal budget.

Please Help!

How much you wanna spend?

[jfugate]

1. How big is your layout?
2. How many locomotives do you have?
3. How many do you plan on operating at a given time?
4. Will you be operating solo or with others?
5. What's a "minimal budget" in dollars?
   

Yes, to give you an answer to your question that actually makes sense, we need you to answer these questions for us.

Your question is not unlike coming onto a car-enthusiast forum and asking: what's the best car on a minimal budget?

They'll want to know -- car or pickup? Commuter or hauling people? In town or vacation pulling a trailer? Same story here. Tell us how you would use the DCC system and we can give you a better answer. 

[BlueHillsCPR]

Alternately you could search the forums and find at least two threads discussing all the ins and outs of the DCC systems without starting yet another, "which DCC system is best" thread. 

http://cs.trains.com/forums/626056/ShowPost.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/forums/467545/ShowPost.aspx 

[tstage]

Kevin,

Since boston only has four posts to his credit, we'll just chock it up to being new on the forum.  Thanks for providing those links.

Tom

[BlueHillsCPR]

Kevin,

Since boston only has four posts to his credit, we'll just chock it up to being new on the forum.  Thanks for providing those links.

Tom

Tom, 

That's exactly why I thought someone should mention using the search function to find topics. It might be helpful to search the forums for other pertinent threads and it helps keep the number of redundant threads down.   Hopefully the OP will find the links I posted useful.

[Driline]

Where did he go? Its almost been 24 hours?

[boston1943]

No more than $250

[boston1943]

In reply to Tom's questions,

 20 X 19 (Not all space used)

 I plan to get 15-20 at the most

 no more than 10-12

 Usualy solo, but occasionaly up to 4

 no more than $250

[jfugate]

In reply to Tom's questions,

 20 X 19 (Not all space used)

 I plan to get 15-20 at the most

 no more than 10-12

 Usualy solo, but occasionaly up to 4

 no more than $250

Excellent!

Okay, Boston, here's how it works ...

You take the total number of locos you plan to run at once (HO I'm assuming), and assume the following:

Each non-sound loco: 0.25 amps

Each sound loco: 0.50 amps

So for 12 locos (assume non-sound), you have: 

12 x 0.25 amps =  3 amps.

This is the amps your DCC system will need to output. Of course if you plan on running sound locos routinely, then you should consider 6 amps (double).

Running up to 4 trains at a time will mean you will eventually need up to 4 throttles.

Having a 20 x 19 layout means tethered throttles will work, but wireless would be nicer (costs more, of course).

So here's what we have as to DCC systems ...

Digitrax 

• Digitrax Zephyr - 2.5 amps, $160 street price.
• Add 3 UT4 throttles:  $200 street price.
• TOTAL: $360
  
• Pros: Very flexible, expandable system; Digitrax most popular DCC vendor
• Cons: 2.5 amps, not your needed 3 amps, but close! Powerpack form factor rather than walkaround for one throttle; Digitrax user interface more "technical" than NCE or EasyDCC (more learning curve).

NCE

• PowerCab - 1.7 amps, $140 street price.
• Add Smart booster, power supply (3 amps) and 3 Cab04P throttles:  $320
• TOTAL: $460
  
• Pros: Walkaround form factor for all throttles, meets your 3 amps requirement. NCE user interface more friendly and more powerful than other systems
• Cons: Pricey, especially considering the Smartbooster cannot be used if you later want to expand to a full PowerHouse Pro NCE system.

Lenz

• Set-90 - 5 amps, $230 street price.
• Add three LH90 cabs: $240
• TOTAL: $470
• Pros: More than meets your 3 amp requirement -- giving you extra capacity for some sound locos
• Cons: Pricey, most complex user interface of the systems listed
  

EasyDCC

• Basic starter system - 3 amps, $229 street price
• Add 3 X1300 throttles: $210
• TOTAL: $439
  
• Pros: Second cheapest full 3 amp option, user interface almost as nice as NCE's
• Cons: Power pack form factor for some throttles, some later expansion options can be pricey

MRC

• Prodigy Advance2 - 3 amps, $200 street price.
• Add 3 PA cabs: $225
• TOTAL: $425
• Pros: Cheapest full 3 amp option, PA2 user interface almost as nice as NCE's
  
• Cons: New untried release from MRC, early reviews promising, but unsure of system reliabilty long-term, some later expansion options can be pricey

So as you can see, your goal of $250 for a system that would allow you to run 12 locos and 4 operators is not possible. But if you want to get the starter system, and then expand later as you have funds, the NCE PowerCab and Digitrax Zephyr are your cheapest options.

Hope this helps! 

[cudaken]

Sorry to high, jack this posting, but I have a DCC system question. But, first let me say the Bachmann E-Z command with a MRC power station 8 amp booster would be around $250.00. You can run 9 DCC engines with sound. Simple to use, but has draw, backs like not being able to tinker with CV's. Bachmann E-Z is around $100.00 and on E-Bay you can find them for around $75.00 with shipping. MRC Power Station 8 will give you 8 amps of power for around $130.00. Best part of the MRC Power Station 8 is it will work with any DCC system after you out grow the Bachmann E-Z command. For your quest, the big draw back is the wall around cabs and kite needed to make the work. I think the kit is around $40.00 and each walk around throttle is $90.00 each MSR? What where they thinking besides $$$$$$$$$$?

 To get started and by your self, a great starting point! I am running mine now and no regrets.

 Now for the question part. I have finally got to the point I want / need a new DCC system. Not because of the CV limitations of the E-Z command, but it time to start some switching action. I have around 40 + turnouts and all are hand thrown. I am stuck at my desk with the E-Z  command. With the new and bigger bench coming it is time in a month or so for a up grade.

 I was all set to go with a Zephyr and one of the more affordable radio control throttles. My cost would be around $270.00.

 What as made me rethink this plain is after speaking with Scott at B L I! They are not a Digitrax fans. Scott, recommend the Prodigy Advance 2 radio system. Cost would be around the same. They think the MRC system is much easier to program with and run. They taught Linda, there loading dock manger how to use it in 5 minutes?  What are your thoughts Joe and others?

 High Jacking Cuda Ken again.

 

[jfugate]

I would agree that from a user-friendly standpoint, the MRC PA2 is almost as easy to use as the NCE system, and the price is certainly right.

However, MRC's latest entry into the marketplace has no history yet as to it's long term reliability. It's known that MRC's decoders don't last, and that their DCC systems tend to do better than their decoders -- but how much better?

I know of many modelers who have gotten many years of great service from Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, and EasyDCC systems, but I know of no one who's used an MRC system on a layout that has regular op sessions and has years of good experiences to tell us about.

Someone will need to take the plunge and then tell all the rest of us how it goes. Perhaps, CK, it will be you?  

[UpNorth]

Any system has a learning curve involved.  You can  teach someone how to program the basics in 5 minutes, they would be up and running on the Zephyr. Mind you don't throw a curve at them or they will be lost as much as Linda would probably be.

On the other hand, getting a computer interface (Locobuffer-USB or other for Digitrax), adding  JMRI DecoderPro and the learning curve of any system flattens out, programming wise.  You end up with the same user interface for ALL systems and decoders.  Problem is that MRC does not offer a computer interface or port.  

[cudaken]

 Joe, there has been two things that has keept me from going with the Zepher / or any Digitrax system.

 Zepher was the lack of power, 2 amps just seemed a little lite on power. With the MRC booster that no longer the problem.

 Many thing that has turned me off has been the Op's nights at K-10 model trains. K-10 runs a Digitrax Super Cheff (spell check) and I see poeple there poking buttons trying to figuer out why there engines don't move? I don't want to go throught that here at the house.

            Cuda Ken 

[JWBDolphins]

 

(I own a Digitrax Zephyr so that is my bias plus this is the only system that I can speak to.)

One thing that I would add to Joe Fugate's very good list of vendors and options would be the 2 "jump ports" that the Digitrax Zephyr has.  These let you add 2 existing DC Transformers (in my case 2 transformers from a couple of Bachmann starter sets) to the Zephyr which act as wired DCC throttles.  They are limited to just speed and direction - you need to go to the Zephyr itself for lighting, sound, etc - but it is a possibly cheaper solution for adding 2 more throttles than the full-blown Digitrax UT4 throttles.

If you went the jump port option for 2 of your throttles (using existing DC power packs), adding a single Digitrax UT4 throttle would put you close to your $250 limit.

 

[Stevert]

 Joe, there has been two things that has keept me from going with the Zepher / or any Digitrax system.

 Zepher was the lack of power, 2 amps just seemed a little lite on power. With the MRC booster that no longer the problem.

 Ken, not to split hairs but the Zephyr is actually rated at 2.5 amps.  And adding an additional booster is as easy as plugging in a LocoNet cable (6-conductor phone cable) and routing the booster output to your power district(s).    

 Many thing that has turned me off has been the Op's nights at K-10 model trains. K-10 runs a Digitrax Super Cheff (spell check) and I see poeple there poking buttons trying to figuer out why there engines don't move? I don't want to go throught that here at the house.

            Cuda Ken 

  I've seen that happen at operating sessions, too, with several different brands of DCC systems.  It's usually the result of a poorly installed or maintained DCC system and/or operators who frankly don't know what they're doing. 

  I've even been the victim of it, with a CVP wireless throttle on a Lenz system.  The throttle would often require multiple button presses before the loco would respond.  Not just for speed, either, but also lights, bell, and whistle (which made grade crossings an adventure!).  I don't know if it was a weak battery, poor reception, or just a worn-out throttle (it felt "sloppy"), but before I would ever consider purchasing them I'd certainly have to try other CVP wireless throttles on other layouts.

Steve

[CSX Robert]

...
Usualy solo, but occasionaly up to 4
...

One thing I would like to point out: Are you sure it wll never be more than 4? If not, I would not go with the PowerCab with a SmartBooster, because the SmartBooster has a 4 throttle limit. Also, when operating solo, I really like the dual throttles you get with the Digitrax DT400 throttles.

It is true that with the Zephyr you can have four operators by only adding three throttles(or only adding one if you use the jump ports), but unless one or more will be stationary(such as a yard operator), you will probably want a walkaround throttle for each person.

[boston1943]

Thanks a milion for the help Tom and others, I'm still in the decision phase, but it seems that either the Zepher (subtracting locos or fanangling the orriginal 12 in) or MRC would be best, but  I am leaning on the side of the Zepher.

Thanks again!!!

[Bapou]

Thanks a milion for the help Tom and others, I'm still in the decision phase, but it seems that either the Zepher (subtracting locos or fanangling the orriginal 12 in) or MRC would be best, but  I am leaning on the side of the Zepher.

Thanks again!!!

I have the PowerCab from NCE, and I really like it.

You should look at some of the DCC systems and try them if you can.

Check this out:

http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm 

[SpaceMouse]

I have operated on an MRC Prodigy on a major layout with weekly ops sessions for over a year. Ops sessions consist of about 8 guys running with an off-site dispatcher.

 I'm not the owner, so I have no experience with programming in it. But I can say that it has not had any problems other than a couple of pulled out plugs. The NCE I've worked on has the occasional runaway train and the Digitrax has is quirks too.

I've yet to really run into anything with the MRC I'd really call a quirk.

I still wouldn't switch from my Digitrax, but I know it better.