New to DCC i have a few questions

[Sandeky1989]

Im looking to start a layout when i finish cleaning out my basment.   I plan on just buying a few starter sets to start with and start replaceing track after words.  so my question(s) are is the DCC system that comes with the set im looking at good to start with?  Is it hard to install a DCC decoder into a loco that doesint have a DCC plug in it?  im planing on starting out by buying ether http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=Set&offset=25&ID=200411080

or

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=Set&offset=25&ID=200477809

and i also want to get

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=Set&offset=25&ID=20016106

but the loco isint DCC equiped.  Would it be easy to equip a decoder in that loco to use with the E/Z command system? 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

The EZ Command  is a good system for what it does. You can set loco addresses, set direction, control speed and turn the lights on and off as well as dim the lights on certain decoders. It's a bargain basement DCC system for the person who wants to get their feet wet. I've had mine for about two years now and am working to upgrade to a Digitrax Zephyr. My advice on the DCC equipped loco is to strip the factory supplied decoder out of it and replace it with one of the cheaper Digitrax or NCE decoders. The cheap Bachmann decoders tend to have speed control problems, in that they'll suddenly slow down or stop for no apparent reason and have even been known to suddenly go into reverse. I have yet to have that happen with even the cheapest Digitrax decoder I have. The other locos you show there can be converted to DCC rather easily by someone who's done some conversions already. I find that steamers are a little trickier than diesels but not hard. A Digitrax DH123D decoder can be used in the diesel. This will give it the same functions the Bachmann decoder has and more. A DH163D could also be used and can give more lighting effects. These can also be used in the steamers if space is available. For tight spaces you can use N Scale or even Z Scale decoders. I have several installed in some Athearn locos. If they'll pull HO Scale Athearn's they'll in just about anything from HO to Z.

[Anonymous]

Is it hard to install a DCC decoder into a loco that doesint have a DCC plug in it? 

I am only going to comment on this part because I am not familiar with Bachmann E/Z command. 

[That being said, from my limited viewpoint, I would rather choose a Digitrax Zephyr which is a basic, but sophisticated and rather inexpensive controller from Digitrax.  It does not come, however, as part of any starter set.  I believe you are not going to get a lot of bang for your buck with a controller from a starter set, but I stand to be corrected.]

Re: installing simple motor and light decoders in locomotives without a NMRA plug (locomotives that do not say DCC ready, for example) is called hardwiring.  There is nothing particularly hard about it, but there is a learning curve if you have not done much soldering or have a limited understanding of electronics.  However, I was completely green 18 months ago, and today I have hardwired over two dozen locomotives and converted an equal number of DCC ready models.

Hardwiring is the "funnest" thing I do.

However, if you want to get up and running quickly with a starter set that needs locomotives hardwired, you are heading for a few longish detours while you learn to solder, learn how a decoder works, and how to do some rather intricate work with LEDS (if you wish to change light bulbs to LEDS) resistors, shrink tubing, kapton tape.   You wll also need to access a range of basic supplies like these and some basic tools for work, and lubrication etc.

I did.  I love it. I say go for it!  Learning to hardwire locomotives puts a lot of good bargain locomotives within your grasp so that you don't break the bank looking for things ready to run, in the local hobby shop. 

Just take your time.

And oh yeah, let me edit this now that I see Mr. J-W posted above me.  You cannot have any more selfless and detailed help in what ever route you take, than sticking around in this forum and getting guys like Jeffrey-Wimberley to come to your assistance.  Mr. J-W walked me through my first hard wiring of an old P2K BL2 while I kept asking questions which now seem really silly for me to have asked.  It doesn't take long to learn with gentlemen like him on your side.

[Sandeky1989]

Thanks for your replies, id rather get a more advanced DCC system to use from the start but since i have money constraints i need to look for the best deals that will get me the most bang for my buck to start with.  im hopeing to get the PRODIGY EXPRESS  later to upgrade from the E/Z system as it looks to be just about what i need.

 I dont think il be doing anything fancy for a long time untill i have a farly good size setup going then i will work on gettting my Locos better decoders (unless its a emergency) and meby sound to (unless a loco somes sound equiped) but when that time comes i will really like the advice on hardwireing as atm i dont have any supplies (soldering gun, work station or anything).

[Phoebe Vet]

The first link you posted will give you a Bachmann EZ Command and 2 decoder equipped locos for less money than any decent DCC command station.

The EZ Command is very primitive, but it works fine for someone who knows nothing about DCC yet.  It's an adequate place to start, but you WILL want something better eventually.

Since you own nothing now, I would not buy any locos that not at least DCC ready.  The difference in cost is minimal.  Then "hardwiring" will never be an issue.  I personally will never buy another engine that does not have sound.

Get your feet wet.  Learn with that cheap system before you jump in.  That way you won't spend large dollars on a "good" DCC system and then find out that you like a different one better.  Hold off on the "big" purchase until you understand what you are shopping for.

Last but not least.  Visit this forum every few days and ask questions from time to time as they occur to you.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I use my EZ-Command to run trains on a 10x8 layout with two mainlines and several industrial spurs.

[Sandeky1989]

yay more helpful replies.  This is a very good forum, i guess i already have a good idea on what i want in my layout, i want to try to get a double track round the room HO scale mainline set in the 1930-1960s era with Big steamers and early diesel with a steam servacing facility, a small rail yard and a couple of stations and towns on the mainline. 

Now with the space avaliable im not entirly shure how to fit this all in to the space i have and im not really shure of the Ohio fire code or what ever it is that tells you how close you can get to a furnace so i could have alot more room than i think i will or alot less(not evan shure where to check for that).

[jeffrey-wimberly]

On a steam servicing facility you could have part of it on the layout and the rest on a photo backdrop.

[Sandeky1989]

true, its the turntable and roundhouse im trying to figure out how to fit in, i want the walters 130ft turntable and 125ft roundhouse at some point but with the layout space i have wich atm is about 13/15 feet long and 6.5/7 feet wide im not shure i will be able  to fit it in evan keeping it at 3 stalls the whole unit is close to 25 inches wide and over 3 feet long.  evan tho i wont be geting that anytime soon i still need to build the space to fit it.

 

 

[Anonymous]

I personally will never buy another engine that does not have sound.

Oh my, deep pockets there!

I enjoy making twice as many sound conversions for the price of rtr with sound.  True, my decoder orders are pricey, but that way I can have 10 locos with sound for the price of 5 or fewer rtr.  And I still like tearing them down to the weights, cutting them up a bit and fitting in my preferred sound systems and speakers.  I do enjoy the 5 rtr w/sound that I picked up, also at bargain prices.

It all depends on what one wishes to focus on, I suppose.

[Phoebe Vet]

Cisco:

I was surprised that such a simple statement touched a nerve.

I do not buy engines in bulk.  I have most of what I need.  A new engine is an occasional purchase.  I have never bought 10 engines at a time.

My advise to the young person was that DCC READY is not much more than one that is not DCC ready.  Why go through the hassle of hardwiring when you can just plug a decoder in?  Buying an engine that is not DCC ready then converting it is like buying a new car with a manual transmission and then converting it to an automatic.

As far as buying DCC sound rather than converting.  Same argument.  Buy an engine, then buy a sound decoder and a speaker, and you have spent almost as much money as you have for a RTR sound engine.  The only reason to do it is if you enjoy the exercise of trying to cram all that stuff in there.

If you already own legacy engines, that is a whole different argument.  I never suggested throwing out existing stock and replacing it with new RTR.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I for one like to convert non-DCC ready locos to DCC. Some of them can be a bit of a challenge, especially where space is at a premium.

[Sandeky1989]

I think i mite need to learn to hardwire, after remaesuring the space avaliable i desided to work in N scale for the space problems.  I just think it would be to much of a hassle to try to model big HO steam in a 6.5 foot wide space.  Alot of the  N scale steamers arnt DCC ready or at least dont say thay are on the sites i see them on.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

On those locos where space is at a premium you can install Z scale decoders. Hardwiring isn't difficult after you've done it a couple of times. The decoder wires are all color coded. Red and black are for wheel pickup, orange and gray go to the motor, white is for the forward light, yellow for the rear light and blue is common for both forward and rear lights.

[Anonymous]

Cisco:

I was surprised that such a simple statement touched a nerve.

I do not buy engines in bulk.  I have most of what I need.  A new engine is an occasional purchase.  I have never bought 10 engines at a time.

My advise to the young person was that DCC READY is not much more than one that is not DCC ready.  Why go through the hassle of hardwiring when you can just plug a decoder in?  Buying an engine that is not DCC ready then converting it is like buying a new car with a manual transmission and then converting it to an automatic.

As far as buying DCC sound rather than converting.  Same argument.  Buy an engine, then buy a sound decoder and a speaker, and you have spent almost as much money as you have for a RTR sound engine.  The only reason to do it is if you enjoy the exercise of trying to cram all that stuff in there.

If you already own legacy engines, that is a whole different argument.  I never suggested throwing out existing stock and replacing it with new RTR.

Hey, not to worry.  I am not touchy.  Modelling make me serene...that's why I do it.

I certainly agree with you in many respects....maybe even generally.  There is little advantage to converting a model of loco if it can be had nicely-priced DCC W/sound.  Take the U28bs at trainworld.com selling at $109. At most one would save $20.  Even the SD40-2s at $129...as saving of maybe $40 if one had picked up the locos on sale for, say $40 on Ebay.  And then, they would not have the warranties and would have gone through all the time and trouble of installation.  Don't bother.

I have converted maybe 12 or 13 to sound, and as you say, most were nice ones I had found at a very good price and would like to have run with sound.  A few more--steamers especially-- if they can be had at a good price, can save me $150 over retail in my own sound installation....even with a Tsunami costing $90.  The installations in the tender are less arduous that cutting apart the weight in an old loco, too.

So generally, Phoebe, you are quite right.  It is a particularly favourite loco, or a particularly good purchase price of a steamer that make sense for installation of sound.

[Sandeky1989]

Sound decoders are not realy at the top of my list of purchasing requirments.  As long as i can fit a standerd Decoder in i will be happy.  Untill i have one of the engines in my hand i wont be able to figure out more but useing Z scale decoders sounds like a good idea that il need to look into.

[Bapou]

Try reading this, it is a great source of DCC information for beginners.

http://tonystrains.com/download/DCC-for-Beginners-tte8x11.pdf 

[MisterBeasley]

Three years ago, when I started building my layout, I thought sound was something I could take or leave, or really just a gimmick.  Then, I went to my LHS one day when there was a sound-equipped Proto 0-6-0 running on his in-store layout.  I was completely hooked and I ordered one, even though I modelled the mid-1960's.  Now, my layout is moving towards being dual-era so that I can run steamers, and I've found that my non-sound engines seldom run unless I can consist them with sound engines.

So, I would say stop, look and particularly listen to sound engines before making any purchase decisions.  If you can get a very good price on a non-sound engine, it might be worth getting that and installing your own sound.  But, if you're looking at most of today's offerings, you'll find that the difference between a DC engine and a DCC engine with sound is about $100.  That's about the cost of a low-end sound decoder, speaker and enclosure, and you're likely to get a better-quality decoder with the RTR model.

[iomtt]

Hi

I too am new to dcc and have fitted some six pin decoders to my locos not so familiar with you guys here the class 37 new type from grahan farish/bachmann , the decoders are digitrax .....DZ 125-IN  in them,  setting the address is ok  and the control unit find the  address ok, the loco  moves off but at a crawl in either direction, could any of you tell  me how to change the speed of the loco, i have not got into  the meaning of CV  values etc and would like to know in simple  terms how to  achieve a better performance from the locos.

The control system is a gaugemaster prodigy advance basically an MRC/digitrax unit but in gaugemasters casing, one  previous  contributor to this post  mentioned a prodigy express  which i  have the feeling is the same  unit.

I have this happen with some class 66  kato locos as well, and would  like some advice please.

Best regards.

Nick.  

[modelmaker51]

Prodigy Express and Advance are made by MRC and have nothing to do with Digitrax (a competitor). Express is the "starter" system and Advance is, well, the advanced system. Evidently for sales in England they have been repackaged in Gaugemaster clothing. 

[iomtt]

Prodigy Express and Advance are made by MRC and have nothing to do with Digitrax (a competitor). Express is the "starter" system and Advance is, well, the advanced system. Evidently for sales in England they have been repackaged in Gaugemaster clothing. 

 Hi  modlemaker,

Sorry for the  misquote  concerning  the  mrc/gaugeamster units, i did  post the  item at  3  o'clock  in the morning  here  that day, and have  been  struggling with  the  system  being new to the  dcc side of railroads. 

Things are progressing though with  the  unit and find it more user freindly after experimenting.

Off  to  read my book on CV  values  and their  meanings.