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Help for wiring 1 Tortoise from 2 different control panels

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Help for wiring 1 Tortoise from 2 different control panels
Posted by Jon NFL on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 9:27 PM

Newby - just joined this forum to get help on wiring controls for a Tortoise.

I have several control panels around the layout to handle switching of different yards and industrial areas. One area is "overlapped" and it needs to be controlled from 2 different panels.

The control panels are schematics with DPDT switches and 2 LEDs for each turnout. The green LEDs indicate the leg of the turnout. I would like to follow this appearance.  Will a DPDT-Center OFF handle the need? and if so, what about the constant power to stall the Tortoise?

Thankfully, there are only 3 Tortoises that need to be wired this way. I welcome any thoughts, ideas and/or comments.

Thanks, in advance.

Jon

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Posted by BlueHillsCPR on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 9:39 PM

There is a schematic diagram on the webpage linked below that should be exactly what you are looking for.  Scroll 1/2 way down the page to find it.

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/sw_ctl.htm 

I believe you will want DPDT switches WITHOUT a center off posistion, no? 

 

Sign - Welcome [#welcome]

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Posted by UpNorth on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 9:52 PM
Thing that might be annoying with this wiring  is the fact one toggle physical position will indicate the opposite positon of switch machine.  The LEDs will indicate the proper orientation thow. Little detail
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Posted by Jon NFL on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 9:52 PM

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

The reason for the Center-OFF - the physical position of the toggle is an additional indicator of the turnout position. I may be over thinking this?

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Posted by UpNorth on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 9:54 PM
Center-off will not work in this wiring example.
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Posted by BlueHillsCPR on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:00 PM
 Jon NFL wrote:

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

The reason for the Center-OFF - the physical position of the toggle is an additional indicator of the turnout position. I may be over thinking this?

I don't understand.  The center off position indicates which turnout position?  I can see where one toggle will physically indicate the wrong position but it's the LED's that matter in my opinion. Just my My 2 cents [2c]

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Posted by BlueHillsCPR on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:02 PM

 UpNorth wrote:
Center-off will not work in this wiring example.

Yes, that was my take on it too.  Not sure why the OP wants the center off toggles.  ON-ON toggles are what is needed as far as I can see. 

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Posted by Jon NFL on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:04 PM

UpNorth - you picked up on my concern - if Center-Off won't work (because of the Tortoises?) then is it possible to control a single slo-mo from 2 different panels and have the toggles in sync?

The Center -Off would be a non-indicator as opposed to an erroneous indicator. Thinking too much  :o)   Is there a way to do it?

 

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Posted by UpNorth on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:37 PM
Physical toggle sync, good luck. Requires motor or solenoid to keep toggles in sync. 
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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 11:21 PM
 Jon NFL wrote:
...The Center -Off would be a non-indicator as opposed to an erroneous indicator. Thinking too much :o) Is there a way to do it?...


I can think of at least two ways to do it. I will try to describe them and I can come up with a wiring diagram if anybody is interested.

1. The most common way to wire a tortoise is through a DPDT switch that switches the polarity on the wires going to the tortoise. To control it from more than one place, add additional DPDT's wired in series(this is shown in a link provided by someone else previously). If you want to use momentary DPDT's, wire the switches in parallel(wire the first one just like you would if you were only going to use one switch, then with the rest, wire each pole to the corresponding pole on the first switch). If you do this, when you throw the switch you will have to hold the toggle in position long enough to make sure the switch is completely thrown. Also, if two people try to throw the switch in opposite directions at the same time, it will cause a short, but you could put a resistor in the power lead to guard against this(I would have to experiment to find the best value resistor - a larger value draws less current when shorted, but would slow down the motion of the switch machine).

2. The second method requires that you wire the control panel just like you would with a snap switch, but instead of controlling a switch machine, you control an Atlas Snap Relay. The snap relay acts just like a DPDT switch, and it controls the tortoise.
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Posted by NeO6874 on Thursday, April 3, 2008 8:53 AM
I seem to remember an article that covered this type of wiring in a MR a few months ago (maybe oct or nov of '07)

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by Bill54 on Thursday, April 3, 2008 9:11 AM
 Jon NFL wrote:

UpNorth - you picked up on my concern - if Center-Off won't work (because of the Tortoises?) then is it possible to control a single slo-mo from 2 different panels and have the toggles in sync?

The Center -Off would be a non-indicator as opposed to an erroneous indicator. Thinking too much  :o)   Is there a way to do it?

 

Jon,

BlueHillsCPR gave you the link you need to wire two DPDT (on-on) switches to one tortoise machine.

The toggle switch will not be an indicator of which way the turnout is thrown.  You said you want to use LED's for that. 

What I did was use the second DPDT switch diagram in the link.  I used two leg bipolar LED's red/green.  Each LED shows the route taken in green and the the route cut off in red when the switch is thrown.

Once you have the tortoise wired and working, come off the tortoise wires to each LED on both panels.  Just make sure that you wire the LED's so that the green / red shows the correct direction.  If wired wrong just reverse the wires.

Bill

As my Mom always says...Where there's a will there's a way!
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Thursday, April 3, 2008 12:17 PM
 Jon NFL wrote:

UpNorth - you picked up on my concern - if Center-Off won't work (because of the Tortoises?) then is it possible to control a single slo-mo from 2 different panels and have the toggles in sync?

The Center -Off would be a non-indicator as opposed to an erroneous indicator. Thinking too much  :o)   Is there a way to do it?

I have to control one turnout from two panels where the toggle positions will NOT show the turnout direction.  My solution was to have the toggles throw parallel to the track, rather than perpendicular - and rely solely on the indicator lights to tell me which way the (concealed under scenery) turnout is thrown.

With the throw direction parallel to the track, any toggle position is a non-indicator.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by Jon NFL on Friday, April 4, 2008 4:54 AM

Thanks, Dan. The MR index indicates that it is in the Jan 08 mag. My subscription started with the Feb issue :(  Before I spend $10+ to purchase the article, I'm trying to find if it is anything different than what has been offered here. Has anyone read it? Anything new?

Chuck, your solution may be the simplest. Thanks

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Posted by ChrisNH on Monday, April 7, 2008 1:11 PM

I have been trying to find a push-button dpdt that is not momentary for a turnout I have I wish to control from either the main control panel or locally so that there would be no visual synch problems with the switch position. I havent had much luck and am wiring that one turnout using sliders rather then toggles to make it stand out as different.

Chris 

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Posted by BlueHillsCPR on Monday, April 7, 2008 1:51 PM
 Jon NFL wrote:

Thanks, Dan. The MR index indicates that it is in the Jan 08 mag. My subscription started with the Feb issue :(  Before I spend $10+ to purchase the article, I'm trying to find if it is anything different than what has been offered here. Has anyone read it? Anything new?

Chuck, your solution may be the simplest. Thanks

The Article In the January MRR deals with using the relay contacts on the tortise to "hold" the power applied so that momentary switches could be used to control the tortise from dual control points. This could be a solution for the mis-aligned toggle issue. 

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