Decoder Pro Connection

[bswing]

I can't seem to get a connection using a RadioShack USB to serial cable from the NCE Powerhouse Pro to my laptop with Decoder Pro. Does anybody use this type of connection?

Thanks, Wingding

 

[UpNorth]

Have you read thru this document...

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/nce/NCE.shtml

[cacole]

The USB port will not work with Decoder Pro, you have to have a serial (DB-9) plug on both ends.

NCE recently introduced a hardware interface that connects to a USB port, but their web site emphatically states that you cannot use it with Decoder Pro.

There's seems to be something about Decoder Pro that makes it incompatible with a USB port.

[garya]

I recommend posting your question at the JMRI User's Yahoo group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmriusers/.

I use a Keyspan USB to serial adaptor to connect my Mac iBook to a Lenz LI101F, then to a Roco DCC system, so DecoderPro does work through a usb port for me. NCE seems to be a different setup, though. Upnorth's link has much good information.

[UpNorth]

There's seems to be something about Decoder Pro that makes it incompatible with a USB port.

Is that a general comment or only to be appplied to NCE ?

[fmilhaupt]

There's seems to be something about Decoder Pro that makes it incompatible with a USB port.

Is that a general comment or only to be appplied to NCE ?

 

My suspicion is that it is a limitation of how NCE implemented its interface to the command bus, as USB itself is simply a method of communicating between the computer and the command bus interface and doesn't inherently have any limitations which should prevent programming operations on any system. I switched from a serial port version of the LocoBuffer to the LocoBuffer-USB on a couple of Digitrax systems without any loss of Decoder Pro or Panel Pro functionality.

I'm hoping that the guys working on DecoderPro can come up with a workaround or an update to resolve this. Jim S. at NCE is very responsive to his users, so I imagine that he'll come up with something, if it's strictly a hardware or firmware issue on the interface or command station end.

Otherwise, adding a SPROG II (a stand-alone programming device that doesn't require a DCC command station) into the mix might be a better solution for NCE users (or users of any other system, for that matter) who have computers which have only USB ports, and who only want to use Decoder Pro.

 

[bn7026]

Hi Winding,

Suspect the problem is with the RadioShack adapter.  Suggest getting a Keyspan USB / Serial converter and everything will go fine.  I use one with my Dell laptop to interface to the NCE command station without a problem. 

I did try a cheaper USB-Serial device before that and try as I must it just didn't work....

Regards

Tim 

[CSX Robert]

There seems to be a little confusion about the various ways of using DecoderPro with NCE. The PowerHouse Pro has a built in RS-232 interface and if you connect it to a computer through a USB to RS-232 adapter you do not loose any functionality; however, it apparently does not work with some USB to RS-232 adapters. NCE now has a USB interface that plugs into the cab bus. It is really designed for the PowerCab, but you can use it with the PowerHouse Pro. When you use the USB interface with the PowerCab, you can program with it, but if you use it with the PowerHouse Pro, you can not program.

[jfugate]

Suspect the problem is with the RadioShack adapter.  Suggest getting a Keyspan USB / Serial converter and everything will go fine.  I use one with my Dell laptop to interface to the NCE command station without a problem. 

I did try a cheaper USB-Serial device before that and try as I must it just didn't work....

Tim

Agreed. Using a Keyspan USB to serial adapter, then a straight db-9 serial data cable (not a modem cable, it has the send and receive pins reversed on one end), and DecoderPro works like a charm with my NCE PH Pro system.

I also have a PowerPax and have installed the resistor in the programming track feed as recommended. I have yet to find a decoder I can't program with this set up. 

[UpNorth]

I could show you a couple that my PowerPax programming track can't talk to, resistor or not.

JMRI and their support forum suggests the Keyspan  USB converter also.

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/USBtoSerial.shtml
 

 

[jfugate]

I could show you a couple that my PowerPax programming track can't talk to, resistor or not.

JMRI and their support forum suggests the Keyspan  USB converter also.

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/USBtoSerial.shtml

Interesting ... you're using an NCE PH Pro command station with the latest firmware? 

[UpNorth]

Nope, Digitrax. 

I've beat this to a pulp and gave up. Bachmann Tsunami's I can do as I wish with. The true Soundtraxx Tsunami, no way. This is on a DCS100, PowerPax, DecoderPro environment, program track. 

Strange part is they all can be programmed on my Zephyr, no PowerPax. OPS is not an issue on one or the other command station, same locos.

[jfugate]

UpNorth:

Ah, okay, that explains the issue.

The Zephyr and the newest PH Pro, along with the newest EasyDCC system all do "blast mode" programming ... which means they are designed to accommodate power-hungry sound decoder locos on the programming track. The PowerPax also helps, but you only seem to get the "bullet proof" programming if you use a blast mode savvy command station. The PowerPax is supposed to add "blast mode" programming capability to other non-blast mode savvy systems, but it doesn't appear to do so 100%.

The other wrinkle is "Direct Mode" programming, which is the NMRA's recommended new standard for programming decoders. Older systems don't support direct mode completely, and may not be able to program some of the newest decoders, the most notorious of which is the BlueLine sound decoder.

EasyDCC, for example, can't program a BlueLine decoder on the programming track.

I find my NCE PH Pro system with a PowerPax and the installed resistor recommended by PowerPax makes for one of the most robust decoder programmers going. I have yet to find a decoder it won't program on the programming track. My EasyDCC system would not program a BlueLine sound decoder, but no problem with the NCE PH Pro system and a PowerPax. 

I suspect a Zephyr will also probably program just about anything as well. I don't own one, but from what I've read, it seems to do very well with just about any decoder on the programming track. 

[UpNorth]

Yes. I've also read that on JMRI support, Digitrax support  and Loy Spurlock's site. Thing is  I put my digital Ohm meter on AC and wire it to the program track. Setting blast mode on or off does not seem to change how the Zephyr handels the output. I can still program the decoders with blast on or off and the AC voltage applied momentarily goes to the same levels.  DecoderPro is changing the OPSSW 7 on the Zephyr to the proper value, I double checked it on the Zephyr.

Like I said, no big deal, just an annoyance having to move the locos when more than OPS programming is required.. 

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

Yes. I've also read that on JMRI support, Digitrax support  and Loy Spurlock's site. Thing is  I put my digital Ohm meter on AC and wire it to the program track. Setting blast mode on or off does not seem to change how the Zephyr handels the output. I can still program the decoders with blast on or off and the AC voltage applied momentarily goes to the same levels.  DecoderPro is changing the OPSSW 7 on the Zephyr to the proper value, I double checked it on the Zephyr.

Like I said, no big deal, just an annoyance having to move the locos when more than OPS programming is required.. 

I don't think measuring the voltage with a DVM there is telling you anything at all.  I believe the issue is a current limit, which probably messes up the shape/timing of the pulses.  The peak voltage is probably the same, but the shape of the pulses is probably not.  You'd need an oscilloscope to see what is really happening, in fact that would probably make it clear.  But most folks don't have one of those in their bag of tricks!