Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
While I can understand the frustration that being brand new to DCC can be, don't just let your very first experience with DCC sour you to the technology. Stick with it just a bit longer, so you get a couple more experiences under your belt, then decide.
Once you get a chance to experience DCC working properly, I'm betting you will be very impressed with the ability it gives you of fine-tuning each and every loco's performance.
If you really care about great loco performance and fiddling with loco mechanisms is not a part of the hobby you relish -- then you owe it to yourself to stick with it until you learn the DCC ropes a little better.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
How about taking a deep breath, accept that you may have missed, or misunderstood something, that has made your experience....so far...a less than satisfactory one. Could we prevail upon you to flesh out your problems with some more details? What you are running, on what, with what. Tell us what you feel is wrong with your experience so far. From there, we, as a group, may be able to get you through this and back to a most rewarding and fun time in the hobby.
Please, stop, and tell us a bit more.
-Crandell
jambo101 wrote:I bought a specific engine (P2K Limited Edition SW 9)to act as a shunter but it only came with factory installed DCC and sound which the salesman said would run fine as a DC unit minus the DCC parameters and i would also not have control over the sounds,well when i tried it the thing wouldnt run 2ft without cutting out or shutting down so i returned the product
i have just been given another unit with DCC and it runs about the same but i dont have the option of returning it.
A conversion to DC should be fairly straight forward. The most difficult part will be any lighting it has. Basically one would simply remove the decoder. Connect the pickup wires off the trucks together (left to left & right to right). A small wire will probably have to added to each side, because they probably are too short to reach each other. These are your power wires. Next connect the positive pole of the motor to the right hand power wire and the negative pole of the motor to the left. This is an NMRA standard that says the locomotive will go forward when + polarity is applied to the right hand rail. At this point the locomotive should move properly. For headlamps some addition information is needed like the voltage it is expecting. Don't just hook it up directly because many headlamps these days are 1.5V. That would blow in a split second if connected directly to the power pickup wires.
You must understand that there is a certain point on your analog throttle that must always be maintained to keep that DCC engine alive.
Somewhere above that point to a certain point on the throttle dial the engine will leave neutral and move forward or reverse.
The track, wheels must be clean and the good feeders in for it all to work reliably.
If DCC was really bad, I would not have spent the last 5 year's worth of hobby spending on it.
Consider a entry level DCC system to keep better control of your engines. The price of a good one equals that switcher you are trying to run.
Once you get a DCC system controlling that switcher, you are going to be blown away by the slow speed shunting you can do.
Because I myself know that I am no good with the analog throttles, I set all of my DCC engines NOT to accept old style analog power.
I think that you will continue to be frustrated trying to run a dual mode decoder with DC. Considering the cost/investment of a DCC-Sound Locomotive, a long-term solution would be to invest in a DCC starter set such as a Digitrax Zepher. The Zepher will also let you run your non-DCC equiped locomotives in analog mode.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Your $600 Canadian dollars for a starter DCC system is pretty far off the mark.
Take a look at an NCE PowerCab ($150 Canadian) or a Digitrax Zephyr ($147 Canadian) from Litchfield Station. Litchfield Station has free shipping on orders over $50 so you won't even have to pay shipping for these systems! So you can see, for little more than the cost of another nice loco, you can move to running trains on DCC.
Running mixed mode (DCC locos on DC -or- DC locos on DCC) is only a stop-gap measure and not something I recommend as a standard practice, so your dealer's recommendations are somewhat misleading. You will not get decent loco performance for the most part running in mixed mode. Either go straight DC or into DCC -- running regularly with a mixture will not lead to very satisfying loco performance.
If I were in your shoes, I'd sell the one loco you can't return on eBay and use the funds to underwrite the purchase of one of the starter DCC systems above. Then get yourself a couple of fleet decoders (NCE D13SR is a good choice) for $15 each and start your journey into DCC.
Once you see what you can do with DCC, chances are you won't look back. Believe me, DCC is that good! It's easily worth the price of another loco to move to DCC, IMO.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
And....AND... I am pretty sure your little switcher, the first one, came with rubber tires on one axle to help with traction. I may be late now, but I have the same diesel, and I couldn't get it to run more than 12" on my layout. I do run DCC. When I inquired, the kind tech at Walthers told me that my problem would probably go away if I installed an all metal-tired replacement axle that they would happily ship to me for nothing. I accepted, installed it, and have had no problems since. It was getting insufficient power pickup because the rubber tires meant a loss of about 50% of the potential for power transmission via the rails and metal wheel sets.
Also, my very first engine was a BLI DCC and sound Hudson. I ran it on a DC transformer for 10 weeks before I saw the light...I wanted to be able to make the decoder run the engine more realistically. Once I installed my system, a simple plug and play with the same two wires, I was having fun making the decoder do what I wanted it to do.
Try DCC. Watch out for rubber traction tires on short engines, be they diesel or steam.
Im not trying to be snide... but I feel this has to be said:
If you treasure your analog power and refuse to go DCC, then there are analog ONLY versions of your locomotive for sale these days.
=) Cheaper too. And any number of self contained stand alone sound players are availible as well or you can create your own... lol.
I dont know what is worse... a stubborn dual mode user or a stubborn poster like me =)
Cheers!
I have to agree with a lot that has already been said. Jambo, you haven't really "tried DCC" until you actually use it with a real DCC system. Sure, you can use a DC power pack to run a locomotive outfitted with a dual-mode decoder. But there are a number of things that are simply not available to you when you attempt to run your DCC locomotives on DC.
Now, does that mean that DC is bad? On the contrary, it's a proven and reliable technology. However, if you are going to utilize this newer technology, make sure you have a system in place that allows you access to ALL that it has to offer. It doesn't mean that you'll use all of it. It does mean that you have a system that is optimized to operate your locomotive's decoders as they were originally conceived and intended.
I've been trying to come of with an analogy to illustrate my point but I'm stumped at the moment. Maybe someone can jump in with one.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
You're hitting a lit-tle too close to home there, Crandell.
tstage wrote: I've been trying to come of with an analogy to illustrate my point but I'm stumped at the moment. Maybe someone can jump in with one. Tom
How about "Why drive a small economy car to work when you could be driving a Ferrari to work"
Thanks for all the help,i'll start looking for a starter system then worry about how to pay for it without the wife finding out.
Secrets are not good.
My spouse and I dont hide train stuff. In fact my DCC system was a gift one year during the holidays. We had a pretty good year and had a little extra left over for it without touching the everyday budget or bills.
These days when a major purchase comes up, I usually put X dollars away each month into savings and voila! It's done.
I use JMRI on the computer now which connects with my loconet from the computer and it has been a great help towards corraling my sometimes onery set of engines much easier too than a world of binary that I learned in college.
As far as a analogy well... how bout this?
Old style V8 engine or Desiel that breathes air through a carburetor (Spelling?) or turbo and requires rather basic working to function. You could maintain and fix this engine with a standard toolbox from Sears.
Today's engines just need a button pushed to start with just about all of the things that could go wrong removed from the owner's mind by computer. Any problems require a workshop with fancy computers and all sorts of expensive electronics before understanding what repairs are needed.
Sometimes that computer tried to shut my rig down being just a little short of coolant. Takes a paper clip on the sensor to force it to "Think" there is plenty of coolant and bypass some of this... this... fancy junk technology.
In fact, I recently took down the rabbit ears and replaced them with a converter box to recieve DTV signals to supplement my satellite box because the USA will quit transmitting analog tv in early 2009 pernamently.
wyomingrailfan wrote:Well DCC is preety much all plug N' play nowadays.
selector wrote:And....AND... I am pretty sure your little switcher, the first one, came with rubber tires on one axle to help with traction. I may be late now, but I have the same diesel, and I couldn't get it to run more than 12" on my layout. I do run DCC. When I inquired, the kind tech at Walthers told me that my problem would probably go away if I installed an all metal-tired replacement axle that they would happily ship to me for nothing. I accepted, installed it, and have had no problems since. It was getting insufficient power pickup because the rubber tires meant a loss of about 50% of the potential for power transmission via the rails and metal wheel sets.Also, my very first engine was a BLI DCC and sound Hudson. I ran it on a DC transformer for 10 weeks before I saw the light...I wanted to be able to make the decoder run the engine more realistically. Once I installed my system, a simple plug and play with the same two wires, I was having fun making the decoder do what I wanted it to do.Try DCC. Watch out for rubber traction tires on short engines, be they diesel or steam.
Switching the rubber traction wheels to an all metal wheel solved the problem.Thanks for the tip selector and thanks all for sewing the seed of a future DCC convert.
"... This engine has traction tires on one axel, both wheels. Could be related as one truck is only picking up current on two wheels. Hate traction tires... "
" ... Dig deep into the box and you should find another set of wheel sets with no traction tires... "
Funny, these were suggested about 5 days ago by Jbernier and myself. You would have saved all the greif and frustration.
Marc.
UpNorth wrote: "... This engine has traction tires on one axel, both wheels. Could be related as one truck is only picking up current on two wheels. Hate traction tires... "" ... Dig deep into the box and you should find another set of wheel sets with no traction tires... "Funny, these were suggested about 5 days ago by Jbernier and myself. You would have saved all the greif and frustration. Marc.
You are right,i should have checked back to that previous post,I was probably thinking too much about the problem being with the lack of a DCC controller..Thanks guys you really know your stuff..Expect another volley of posts from me when i get a DCC controller..
Jambo,
We'll just expect a much smoother and easier transition whenever you make your move over to DCC.
jambo101 wrote: We have a winner on the problem diagnosis.Switching the rubber traction wheels to an all metal wheel solved the problem.Thanks for the tip selector and thanks all for sewing the seed of a future DCC convert.
We have a winner on the problem diagnosis.
Jambo101, I am pleased that it worked. I have had the same eureka when I have had "issues" and have gotten help from others who have "been there." We help each other and have a better time of things that way.
Whew...I'm glad we got the fat out of the fire that time.
Go DCC!!!
Sent you a PM few days back. Guess you missed it. A Zephyr, with Locobuffer-USB, sold on Ebay for 186$ CDN. It was located in New Jersey, a nice drive away...
Browsing previous sales on Ebay I found Zephyrs sold for between 100$ (not a myth or hear say) and 186$.
You can find DCC for far less than 600$ and are not limited to Digitrax in any way. Why do I push the Zephyr ?... You can use your existing DC power pack with a Zephyr. The Zephyr uses your DC as what they call a " JUMP " throttle. So your power pack is not wasting away. Zephyr is the only one to do this, to my knowledge.
Marc
The power pack's ability to jump onto a DCC system isnt that important.
The old power pack can do good service lighting buildings etc.
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
Again, reading thru their manual, that unit only works with the QSI decoders and the QSI decoder must have QARC. It does not work with any other decoder but QSI.
So you want sound, you limit yourself to QSI decoders and QSI equiped locos. If you pick up a QSI without QARC, it won't work.
Might as well go DCC and not limit yourself.