Coal Mine Info

[WabFan]

Fascinating work and you've done better in research than I've been able to using the mine name and the Wabash RR.  Wabash is reported to have built a line to the mine in 1905 but haven't found a map of it yet. My grandfather was a station master in Mt. Olive in the 50's and early 60's.

[chestnutridge]

scrhenry, modeling post conrail/ns will put you in the modern era for the most part. you are correct concerning the I beams. trolly cranes are stored inside the plant to protect the electrical components and most openings have tall doors to facilitate movement of large components/parts inside. some doors are hinged and have chain attached to the door and welded to the frame so they can be pulled back in place. other doors are light weight and are simply picked up and set to the side. both varients would make good modeling details. regarding the breaker i can tell you about ours. the main structure is open with a metal sided "building" on top which protects the head drive unit of the slope belt. the slope belt is 2700' long and comes out of the mine opening to the top of the breaker and dumps into the breaker. as far as dimensions a rough guess is as follows: square footprint approx 50' x 50' and 40' in height. the belt line from the breaker to the plant is approx 10' high at the breaker and ends at the plant around 70' high. check the following sites for pictures: consol, foundation coal, peabody coal, continental conveyor. hope this is helpful.

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All.

Excellent- thanks for the information.

work safe

[simon1966]

 I was looking at the picture of White City 15; who owned this operation?  I was looking through 1950 and 1953 editions of the Keystone Manual and could not find it - I probably read right by it.  The Burlington Historical Society awhile back did a booklet on CB&Q coal operations in Illinois.  Worth looking at if you haven't seen it.

White City is actually part of Mount Olive, here is a clipping from the local press back in the 50's.

Macoupin County ILGenWeb© MINE NO. 15 WILL CEASE TO OPERATE ©2006 Contributed by Joan Miley
In keeping with our policy of providing free information on the Internet, data and images may be used by non-commercial entities, as long as this message remains on all copied material. These electronic pages cannot be reproduced in any format for profit or for other presentation without express permission by the contributor.

STAUNTON STAR-TIMES, Staunton, Macoupin Co, IL, Thurs 17 May 1951 page 1

MINE NO. 15 WILL CEASE TO OPERATE

A notice was posted Saturday at Mine No. 15 of the Bell & Zoller Coal & Mining Company, located west of Mt. Olive at White City, informing the employees that the mine would be permanently closed, and it is assumed that all machinery will be removed from the bottom for use elsewhere. It is supposed that the action was taken by the company because of the high cost of bringing the coal to the top.

Mine No. 15 employed about 360 men, most of them from Mt. Olive, White City and Staunton. The mine was sunk about 50 years ago. It had been operated by the Consolidated Coal Co. of St. Louis until March 1, when the mine, together with No. 7 mine, near Staunton, and other properties were sold to the Ziegler Coal Co., and operated by the Bell & Zoller firm. For a while it was rumored that either No. 7 or No. 15, or perhaps both, would be shut down, but evidently the company has decided to continue operating No. 7, where the equipment includes a coal washer, at least for the present.

Naturally the closing of No. 15 is quite a blow to the economic welfare of this vicinity. It is hoped, however, that many of the employees may be placed at other mines of the company, and those who are at the retiring age can draw their pension allotments.

The coal mining situation all over the country has been hard hit by the extensive use of oil and gas as fuels, and the closing of No. 15 is the second shut-down in Macoupin County within the past 2 weeks, as No. 1 of the Superior Coal Company ceased operation last week.

 

You can link to this as well as a lot of other good material at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmacoup/mines/m_510517.htm

 

 

From what I can tell, a lot of the coal was used by the Chicago Northwestern RR, which may have also contributed to the demise of the mine.  It is of importance to my family because my Wife's Grandfather died as a result of injuries suffered in the mine back in the 30's.

 

As a member of the BRHS (Burlington Route Historical Society) I can say that the Bulletin on coal mining is one of the best that the society has put out.  This and any of the publications are well worth getting.

[coalminer3]

Happy New Year to all.

I'm pleased to see that this thread is ongoing.  I was looking at the picture of White City 15; who owned this operation?  I was looking through 1950 and 1953 editions of the Keystone Manual and could not find it - I probably read right by it.  The Burlington Historical Society awhile back did a booklet on CB&Q coal operations in Illinois.  Worth looking at if you haven't seen it.

Kaymoor was not too far from where I am located.  Parts of it are still there although the NPS took down a fair amount of the structure(s) b4 they fell down.

Keep the info. coming.

work safe

 

 

[simon1966]

This is a really interesting thread.  I have been spending a bit of time researching a mine here in Central Illinois for my layout.  I am modelling the early 50's, which was very nearly the end for this particular mine.

All that is left of White City #15 is the power station.

I have scratch built part of this and am now fleshing it out with other structures.

In addition to the tipple and a scratch built mine head structure (this was a shaft mine) I am adding a lage stack for the power plant, a mule shed, a store house, a long shed like building that was used by the miners for showers etc.  There were some other smaller office buildings (sheds more like).  According to my Father-in-law, there was also a secondary ventilation shaft and blower house, but I have not been able to find any archive photo of this part.

Anything else I should be adding?

 Thanks for the help.

[scrhenry]

Chestnutridge,

Thank you very much for your description.

I'm modeling Post-Conrail meger NS, say 2002-2003. I have been looking at the few pictures I can find on the internet, particluarly those on http://www.coalcampusa.com/. From these pictures, your description, and the drawings of Kaymoor mine (http://www.wva-usa.com/newsite/www.wvrailroads.com/drawings/kaymoor/) I'm starting to understand the process.

As far as modeling, it seems that most modern prep plants have one main building that is tall and narrow where as older ones were more horiziontal. Also, I notice that in several pictures, there are opening at different levels, some include an I-beam. I assume this is to move heavy equipment out for repair, am I correct? Another question I have is about the rotarty breaker, are they typically at the same elevation as the prep plant? Are they typical enclosed (square building) or open (round cylinder)? What would you guess are the rough dimensions.

Thanks!

scrhenry

[chestnutridge]

scrhenry, i will help you all i can but please let me know what approx time line you are modeling. i am very familiar with the mid 70's to the present. the basics of a prep plant are to process coal prior th shipment. the first step is to seperate slate from the coal. this is a 2 step process. as the coal exits the mine by conveyor belt it dumps into a rotary breaker that looks like a drum on a cement truck but much larger. the breaker has fins on the interior running lengthwise and as the coal and slate hit it all product is broken into smaller pieces. upon exiting the breaker the material travels by conveyor to near the top of the prep plant. our plant is ten stories high and the coal enters on the 7th floor. upon entering the plant the coal/slate is washed with a mixture of water and magnatite and sluces into 2 raw coal screens where the coal/slate is seperated by size. the screens are tilted and vibrating to allow the coal/slate to continue moving downward. after leaving the raw coal screens the coal/slate falls into a large tub called a vessel. the vessel is sloped on one end and has a chain conveyor running the length. this is where the magnatite comes into play. magnatite makes coal float and as it floats to the surface it vibrates through 2 more screens [refered to as D&R screens] that seperate the coal into basically 2 sizes. now back to the vessel. while the coal floats the slate doesn't and is moved by the chain conveyor up the incline of the vessel and dumped into the refuse screen and from there moved by conveyor to the slate dump and moved by truck to the fill area to be bulldozed out and compacted.

after the coal moves through the D&R screens it dumps into chutes and down through the plant to clean coal conveyors and on to the clean coal silo. smaller sizes of coal and coal fines continue through the plant to clean coal screens and then into machines called "birds". birds spin very fast and spin the water and magnatite out and into vessels on the first floor to be pumped back up to be used again. the smaller coal and coal fines are conveyored out of the plant and mixed with the larger coal before it goes to the clean coal silo for shipment. i know it's alot of info to digest so if you have any follow up questions feel free to reply. again, let me know what era your modeling and i'll dump even more info on you. if i can figure it out i'll post a couple of pictures on this thread.

[scrhenry]

chuck, at our mine which employs over 500 union employees our surface facilities are the following. a supply yard with 2, 44" guage tracks, empties and loads. our supplies are "dropped" down a slope attached to a slope car. there is a maintenace shop building for repair mine cars and mine locomotives. there is an adjacent vehicle maintenance shop for pickup trucks, forklifts, etc. a hoist house where the hoist operator "drops" the hoist car into the mine on what looks like a big reel with 2" cable.

the prep plant has the main coal prep building which is 110' tall, a maintenance shop, numerous conveyor belts which run from the mine, to the prep plant and then either to the train loadout or to the slate dump. there are also office buildings at both sites for management personnel, 3 sided buildings for storing electric motors and load centers and a centrally located warehouse for underground supplies. at our mine we have a captive railroad that runs from the prep plant to the river so we have a clean coal silo for the train to load from, 2 raw coal silos for storing coal from the mine in case the prep plant is down for repairs and a raw coal stacker for additional storage. there are numerous ponds where water is pumped from underground, treated and used in the coal cleaning process plus a thickener where waste water from the prep plant is pumped, the solids removed and then the water is used again in the plant. there is also 1 silo at the plant which stores magnetite for cleaning the coal. there are also numerous small buildings scattered about such a a grease shanty where bulk oil for the mine is stored, a hazmat shed for oil spill supplys, pump houses for the ponds etc. i can't think of much more but will be glad to answer any more questions you have. 

Chestnutridge, I'm working on my new layout and wish to include a prep plant as the main of the industries. Your description is most helpful. As you can imagine pictures are work a thousand words. Do you have or know where can I find pictures of prep plant?

Also, a description of how a prep plant works would be very helpful.

Thank you!!!!

cheers, scrhenry

[batterymule7]

Mines that used rail equipment underground did have mow equipment but not in the fashion that we are all used too.  For example, if an ore carcame off the track (a very common occourance) there wouldn't be a derrick per say to put it back on, usually in my experience and knowledge, the motor crew would use a heavy jack or a come along to get a car back on the rails.  Anybody with more expereince in these matters, feel free to chime in.  For track gangs, there would be a motor and a few flat cars loaded with supplies, ties, rail, replacement mine timbers, air tools such as tampers, air wrenches and the lot.  There might even be a powder car in there if any serious grade adjustment needed to occur or work on the **** ditch needed to be done.  Any work that needed to be done on the trolley system could be done off the backs of the flat cars if need be.  Like I said this is just info I have gathered from freinds that have been there and done that, if anybody else has more experience chime in I am dying to learn new stuff.

[dcsunderland]

Granite, it depends on what part of the country your layout is based and also when.  If you are modeling the western states in say the steam era you could have a portal, an ore stockpile, waste dump, and maybe a shed or two.  That would be a very small gold or silver mine that wouldn't need to ship by rail.  You could go a little bigger and put a headframe for a shaft which would need a boiler and a hoist.  This could have a tipple to load trains.  A modern mine wouldn't be much different but wouldn't need a boiler and wouldn't load trains.

If you wanted a coal mine a steam era one would be like the ones I described above.  A modern mine needs a stockpile, a crusher, a silo and loadout or a tipple and the neccesary belts.  Remember all mines need compressed air, water, ventilation fans and after the 1880's electricity.  Shops and crushers can be underground.  I hope this helps.

Dave

[GraniteRailroader]

Seeing this thread got my brain thinking....

I'm wanting to do an N-Scale bookshelf layout. If you had to fit an operational mining site into a bookshelf layout, what "MUST" be included? I'm thinking a 30"x72" space with another 30"x4 section to make it an "L". A second level "below" is an option for a freight yard towards the rear and perhaps some mining operations below the surface.


Edit: A quick prototype question... Did the mines have any sort of MOW equipment?

[C&O Fan]

Great Thread Guys !!!

Ok i'm guilty of being one of those modelers that only have a tipple and little else

i did include a mine car shed some mine tracks a shaft entrance and a office building

But it looks like i've got a lot more to do. What photos i could find on the Internet

didn't show much else

I did find 2 drawings on line that showed me for the first time some of the complexities

of a mine Here's one

http://www.wva-usa.com/newsite/www.wvrailroads.com/drawings/kaymoor/

Here's a photo of what i have so far

[Loco]

    Looking, but can't find a canary.  I need to know it's save for my coal miners to opperate!  LOL

Just a bit of hummor.  Great thread.

[dcsunderland]

Thats cool.  Those small headings are fun to drive.

[batterymule7]

Nah Rudy tramped.  I think he's with Dynatec now.  Our haulage way is 10x10 inside the timber sets and the raise up the ore vein is 3 compartment 5x5 jokerchutes and a 4x6 manway.  All drilling is done with jacklegs.

[dcsunderland]

Is Rudy still out there?  We've got a couple old Mercury jumbos but they are thrashed.  All of the vein mining is jacklegs, 6x9 or 8x9 headings, the haulages are 12x12.

[batterymule7]

A bunch of our hands came out from Hecla, one fella came out for a couple of days then went back.  They all seem to be good hands and hard workers.  Ashdown would be a heck of alot nicer if we had a jumbo some times but we seem to make do with a pair of jacklegs.

[dcsunderland]

I work for Hecla at Ivanhoe.  I got offered a job at Ashdown but decided to stick it out with Hecla for now.  We're doing the same thing small vein mining, it's fun I like it.  Our plans change like the wind here too.

[coalminer3]

Good Morning all.

Glad to see folks are still out there.  Interesting to hear from Australia and from Batterymule as well.  I understand what you mean about plans.  We have had operations in our area that have had to close because of unexpected geology, etc. - nothing new to you, I'm sure.  IOW, if you don't like it wait a minute.

Mines around here use truck haulage, rail and some use a combination of truck/rail/and barge; again depending upon where you are.

Question to our Australian oupost; how big a longwall panel?

work safe

[batterymule7]

I work at the Ashdown Mine up in Denio, Nv.  I started out at Queenstake, north of Elko, but tramped due to school then ended up in Denio for making money for school.  I am currently still there.  None of the mines that I have seen in Nevada have rail links to my knowledge and as far as I know, none of them use rail underground either.  We were going to in our original plan but our plans change ten times a day so we are typical carlin style truck and ramp haulage but we have a nice narrow vein so mining it should be interesting.  We just started our raise up the ore body this week.  Were do you work at?

[dcsunderland]

Batterymule7 where do you work?  I'm also a miner in Nevada.  I would agree with what everyone has said about mine opperations.  I've worked coal and hardrock both require alot of the same type of surface structures.  None of the hardrock mines that I have worked at had any kind of rail link  The coal mine I worked at had a silo and belt setup like described before.  We usually loaded 1 or 2,100 car trains a day. 

[peterjenkinson1956]

hello fello coalminers...  i have been a coalminer for over 25 years in australia...  i started work at a longwall mine in wollongong near sydney..  at the time it produced 1,600,000 tons on good clean coal..  longwall coal is usually clean enough to put straight on the boat to japan or china..  i have just finished at a mine in queensland  and it produced 6,500,000 tonnes with a longwall..  there is also a place change unit producing 650,000 tonnes...  underground transportation has been from rail transport with four wheel diesel man cars that carried 14 miners ,  special four wheel drive personnel carriers that looked like a custom made hummer to toyota land cruisers with scrubbers on the exhaust and a methane shutdown system

i helped to develop a mine in australia that had a three mile underground tunnel from pit bottom to the load out...above the mine is a winary and you cannot see any sign of the mine... very tidy

most of the mines in australia are large seams by american underground mine standards...  a seam of 8 foot is small  some mines have seams of 16  to 33 feet or more..  hope i could help   peter

[chestnutridge]

I've been busy with work and yard work but I'm back. Our laydown area is a storage area for pumps, take up rollers and assorted parts for our coal screens. This is for the prep plant only. The main supply yard is for underground supplies and is also our bone yard. Our company has discovered the price of scrap steel and now scraps out alot of old mantrips and other assorted metal. So most of our boneyard is gone. Miners and shuttle cars etc. are sent out to rebuild shops and refurbished. Hope this helps. Don't go inby.

[batterymule7]

I know I am bringing back to life an old topic but I have been at work and out of town these last few weeks so I have missed out.  By laydown area you are referring to a bone yard / equipment stock/ staging area are you not?  I guess I should differentiate between the two as our equipment area is also our bone yard, gotta love poor boy mining!

[chestnutridge]

Just a quick note to all participating in this subject. One thing I've learned during my time in the prep plant as a mechanic is in real life we don't have perfect siding on our buildings, hand rails on steps are bent, legs on conveyor belts are bent, etc. Alot of these imperfections are due to human error when moving high lifts in and around the plant. Since seeing and recording these imperfections on film I'm not the perfectionist I once was. When I model an industry now I will intentionaly put imperfections into the structures. I 've visited local layouts that are very well done but looking at structures that are pristine except for weathering being applied. A couple of things I neglected to include in a previous thread regarding structures around a mine are the numerous sub-stations. Also metal racks for pipe, I & H beams and flat sheet metal. These racks are scattered around the shop area. And remember when building racks that any scrap strutural shapes will work. We normally have to dig out the correct diameter pipe from the rack with a fork lift because the pipe is mysteriously put in the wrong place by others on other shifts. A small lay down area would be another interesting detail to add. A prep plant has pumps everywhere inside and out and our laydown area has close to 30 pumps of various sizes lined up on both sides of the lay down area so high lifts or fork lifts have room to turn. I would like to see modelers in other areas of employment volunteer info as well, such as steel mills, lumber yards, etc. This is the best way to get a feel for what a modeler needs to model. Right from the horses mouth.

[cefinkjr]

  Did MR ever do an industry specific on coal mining or even mining in general?

Don't know about MR but Railroad Model Craftsmen did a series several years ago called "Diggin' Coal" that provided detailed information like we've been discussing here.

Also, don't be afraid to mix and match coal cars from different lines on your trains.  Pictures form different eras will give you an idea of what the trains looked like.

I wouldn't get too carried away with this sort of thing though; particularly if you model part of a very large railroad.  I remember when I was a kid (late '40s early '50s) that a hopper lettered for anything other than PRR on the Monogahela Branch (Shire Oaks to West Brownsville, PA) was pretty unusual.  Similarly, just about everything on the other side of the river was lettered P&LE and/or NYC with a smattering of other NYC subsidiaries (e.g., PMcK&Y) appearing from time to time.

The appearance of a box or refrigerator car, particularly on my side of the river (PRR), was really an event prompting all sorts of questions about why that 'special equipment' was there.  Gondolas were a pretty regular sight though.  We knew empties were headed for the Pittsburgh Steel tube mill at Allenport, PA and we would soon see them headed back to Shire Oaks and the rest of the world with a load of steel pipe.

The point of this is that your trains should reflect the traffic one would expect on the modeled part of your railroad as to both the types of cars and their ownership.

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All:  Comments re mine motors are interesting.  How about Z scale mechanisms for power?  Just a thought - There are publications out there covering mine motors, etc., but they were all produced "back in the day."  Mechannuals (printed in the 1940s) are an example, as they had pictures, etc. of different motors.  You could spec out your motor from them.  Also, manufacturer's catalogs are another good source of information. 

In this part of the world, there were extensive batteries of coke ovens associated with many of the mines.  You can still find oven sites of you know ehere to look.  Anyway, the larry cars used at these operations were often narrow gauge.  Coke was loaded into standard gauge cars once it was ready.  In some cases this was done by hand and in other cases by conveyor. 

Batterymule raises some good point in his latest post.  What gets me is the mines on layouts where the loadout is way too small for the amount of activity portrayed.  Big buildings, itty bitty space for cars.  Of course that's not to say that some operations were not set up that way. 

Would be interested to read some of your ideas,  and with your permission, will throw two on the pile as well.  Both of these have application to modeling coal operations rather than hardrock. 

In some cases, reciprocal switching agreements applied at different mines.  For example, C&O around here switched cars to a VGN-supplied mine.  C&O would pick up MTs, supply the VGN-served mine, pull the loads and take them to VGN inetrchange.  Would be an interesting idea to model as you could do a bunch of different cars. 

Also, don't be afraid to mix and match coal cars from different lines on your trains.  Pictures form different eras will give you an idea of what the trains looked like.

work safe

P.S.  B4 I forget, those with an interest in things coal and Pa. might enjoy the book Coal and Coke In Pennsylvania.  It was produced by the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission in 1996.  Good information, lots of diagrams, equipment pictures, etc. 220+ pages with a ton of references to additional sources.

 

[batterymule7]

That is so true, and you know, there has been in the past a vast rail network associated with any underground mine, coal mines especially back in the era's most of us model.  These seem to have been grossly over looked by modellers and model makers alike.  It is a shame that in this day and age, when technology exists to make extremely small mechanisms that can pull a decent amount of cars, no one has come out with a powered mine locomotive model or cars of the small or large capacity variety other than static display models.  The solution to a low profile motor could be an HOn3 underfloor power truck or even a standard guage one with very low profile wheels and mechanism.  As far as mining plants in general as though I love mining railroads very much, they are alas not my area of expertise (due to no experience except with static hard rock relics) I have been working on a list of points that I have been considering submintting to MR going into detail on how to superdetail mining scenes in general.  It is a substantial list which I have been trying to cut down as if ever it was published it would end up being a multi part article!  Did MR ever do an industry specific on coal mining or even mining in general?