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No photos of Hitler's train "Amerika"?

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No photos of Hitler's train "Amerika"?
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:10 AM
Over the past couple of years, I've searched in vain for photos of Hitler's personal train. Nothing but close-ups of him leaning out a car window or something. I see a book on Amazon called "Hitler's Trains" but Amazon has no description for it.
Any suggestions? HO is my collecting sphere, if that has any relevance.
Thanks much, Dennis!
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Posted by corksean12 on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:21 PM
i have been searching for it too. its weird how there is little knowledge of this train, it belonging to one of the most documented men in history and all.
Modelling a short GWR branch line that runs from West England to a small Welsh community
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 02, 2006 10:46 AM
I understand, I've been looking for the same book, but if its anyhelp www.chapters.com has a book called 'Hitlers Trains: The German National Railway and the Third Riech' its $30.00 to $40.00 dollars and reviews are so far postive.

Hopes this helps.

nedarb.Out.
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Posted by Philcal on Friday, November 17, 2006 6:49 PM
I could be mistaken, but I believe the "Amerika" was Heinrich Himmler's personal train.
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Posted by cacole on Monday, December 25, 2006 5:31 PM

According to a video I have that was produced around 1995 in Germany, Hitler never had a specific, dedicated train.  The featured topic of the video is the Deutsche Reichsbahn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacific locomotive number 01-150, constructed in 1932, which was used to pull some of the trains that Hitler traveled in.  The locomotive has been rebuilt and hauls excursion runs today, but there is no mention of a train named "Amerika" in relation to Hitler.

There was a show on The History Channel a couple of years ago where they're interviewing the conductor of one of Hitler's trains that suffered a derailment, and he makes no reference to it being named "Amerika."  He even goes so far as to say that Hitler never liked to travel by rail, but preferred to fly or to use the Autobahn.

Searches of Google and Wikipedia turned up no information about Hitler and a train named Amerika except an oblique reference from a news communique by Goebbels that Hitler was traveling from Berlin to Munich aboard his rail command post "Amerika" to attend an annual commemoration of the Beer Hall Putsch.

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Posted by nylionel on Monday, December 29, 2008 10:43 PM

there is a docurmentry the i seen on the miltary chanel called hitlers bodygards were it shows a few videos of his train nothing to good but they also breifly show and talk about two cars with antiaircraft guns on them that were placed at both ends of hitlers armored train car

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:17 AM

I would think it more likely he (or the Chancellor's office) would have a private car named "Amerika" than an entire dedicated train?? I know the *** (so what's allowed here..."National Socialists"?? "Nuttsys"?? Smile) also had some plans for "super" railroads, built to a broad gauge of like 8' and travelling at high speed which were never built - I think Trains did an article on the plans years ago - so maybe "Amerika" was the name of an engine, car or train from that "super" railroad that never got built??

Stix
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Posted by 4merroad4man on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:45 AM

Try the New York Times archives.  A NYT article refers to the train as a double engined, twelve car armored train which took Hitler to Poland at one point.  Other web pages refer to a complete train, used infrequently by him as transportation.

I did not look any further into these pages, but entering "Hitler's Train "Amerika" into google's search engines yeilds significant results.

Serving Los Gatos and The Santa Cruz Mountains with the Legendary Colors of the Espee. "Your train, your train....It's MY train!" Papa Boule to Labische in "The Train"
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Posted by KJRR on Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:53 PM

Google   Amerike, Hitlers Train     One sit says it was a 12 car double engine train, 10 pages on this subject.

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Posted by JWhite on Saturday, January 17, 2009 5:57 PM

 The Military Channel is running a one hour segment of Hitler's Bodyguards this week that covers the train.  They state it was pulled by two locomotives had a flack car on each end and a number of special coaches. The consist was usually 14 cars and it was often expanded with more cars if he travelled with a larger entourage.  After they declared war on the US the train was renamed Brandenburg. 

There wasn't much footage of the actual train, just a few shots of it pulling into and out of stations that I'm sure came from newsreels.  Interesting story about how on a trip from Poland the train was held up to wait on one with higher priority (I can't imagine what had priority over that train) but the priority train hit a bomb meant for Hitlers train and 430 German soldiers were killed in the wreck.

The train's last trip was carrying SS officials to the "National Redoubt" in the last days of the war after Hitler committed suicide in Berlin.  The train was captured by American troops and Hitler's private Pullman was destroyed.  

I wonder if Pullman actually built that car as it was referred to as a Pullman throughout the show, or if it was just laid out like a Pullman car.

The show runs again at 5:00 pm Eastern on Monday 19 Jan 09.

 

 

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Posted by twhite on Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:56 PM

JWhite

I wonder if Pullman actually built that car as it was referred to as a Pullman throughout the show, or if it was just laid out like a Pullman car.

The show runs again at 5:00 pm Eastern on Monday 19 Jan 09.


 

I caught that particular episode of "Hitler's Bodyguards" on the Military Channel, and it was pretty interesting.  There is a very good chance that the car was built by the Pullman company, as the company made quite a few sleeping and dining cars for both British and European railways during the 'twenties and 'thirties.

But it was a fascinating program. 

Tom

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Posted by DSchmitt on Monday, January 19, 2009 5:04 AM

Bopsor-BR53
I understand, I've been looking for the same book, but if its anyhelp www.chapters.com has a book called 'Hitlers Trains: The German National Railway and the Third Riech' its $30.00 to $40.00 dollars and reviews are so far postive.

Hopes this helps.

nedarb.Out.

I have the book,  It is a interesting but ultimately superficial overview of the German railroad operations, in Germany and the occupied countries, during WW2.

The author states tat most records were destroyed at the end of the war. A lot of the text is quotes of pamphlets, newspaper or magazine articles, and some letters and memos.  Photos are mainly of people working, with very few good photos of equipment .  I don't think there is anything on "Amerika", (definitely no good photos).  

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

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Posted by bsteel4065 on Monday, January 19, 2009 8:33 AM

It would not surprise me at all that Pullman cars were made by Pullman for the train. There was a lot of businesss done with the Third Reich. Everyone seems to forget that Adolf Hitler was held in high regard by many countires before WW2.... he was even 'man of the year 1938' and made the cover of Time magazine on January 2nd 1939. This is true.

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Posted by bsteel4065 on Monday, January 19, 2009 8:37 AM

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16905

Try this link. It seems to indicate that the train was called 'Erika'

Hope this helps.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Monday, January 19, 2009 4:08 PM

JWhite

 Interesting story about how on a trip from Poland the train was held up to wait on one with higher priority (I can't imagine what had priority over that train)

 

Assuming it was a westbound train, likely Jews or captured Soviet soldiers.  Theres many, many primary sources of Wehrmacht commanders complaining that, even as the Russians were closing in on all sides in the east, eastbound troop and war material trains would be held for westbound prisoners.

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Posted by cnwfan2 on Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:57 PM

TRAINS magazine did an indepth article on Hitler's train in the August 1984 issue.Also a book/magazine called "Railroad History",did a 2 part story on Hitler's locomotives.All are very good reading.

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Saturday, February 07, 2009 9:50 AM

nylionel

there is a docurmentry the i seen on the miltary chanel called hitlers bodygards were it shows a few videos of his train nothing to good but they also breifly show and talk about two cars with antiaircraft guns on them that were placed at both ends of hitlers armored train car

A later episode of the same series, documenting the final collapse of the 'Thousand-Year Empire,' had a statement that Der Fuhrer's personal car and all documentation that could be found were deliberately destroyed by the Allies to remove a potential rallying point for diehards.  Given that, the severe shortage of documentation is understandable.

Interestingly, on the opposite side of the world, the Imperial train survived the war, was refurbished and continued in use.  I got to see it in Kyushu in the late 1950s - very impressive.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by hmumm on Sunday, January 16, 2011 9:27 PM

There are scenes of Hitlers train in thei history channel episode "Hitlers Bodyguards"   you could order the episode from the History channel and grab the image...that is how I got a picture of my uncle's B-29 in flight over Japan...I saw the plane on one of their episodes on WWII   #13 1st Squad, 9th BG, 313 BW,,,Tinian

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Posted by wabash2800 on Monday, January 17, 2011 7:18 PM

Beware of thinking all film footage on the History Channel as authentic. They have a habit of using footage that  doesn't really relate to what they are specifically talking about but to fill the time and something to look at.They do that in the war documentaries too. To those that have watched many of their films and know the subject matter, they note the same scenes over and over again in different themes. There is some good material but it IS entertainment.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:39 AM

Hitler's Bodyguard wasn't a History production and never aired on History.  It avoids a lot of the History Channel's failings right off the bat.  Anyhow.  The one episode of the series that I recall featuring a lot of the Führer Sonderzug was the one about Hitler's only official state visit to a foreign power.  There was a lot of imagery and discussion about the train, because it was how Hitler traveled to a summit with Mussolini in Italy.

I mean, you can generally trust the authenticity of footage of the train's arrival in Rome and Hitler detraining to greet Mussolini and King Victor Emmanuel, when it happened all of once.

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Posted by wabash2800 on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 12:10 PM

Thanks for your input. I was referring to the History Channel because some here had made references to it.

We live in a world where there is blur btw the made up and reality. Just look at  our reality TV shows and history made into movies that are written for entertainment.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 12:45 PM

wabash2800

Thanks for your input. I was referring to the History Channel because some here had made references to it.

We live in a world where there is blur btw the made up and reality. Just look at  our reality TV shows and history made into movies that are written for entertainment.

Mine was a similar remark. 

Even innocently stock footage or convenient footage is used and I can't blame them.  Sometimes footage simply doesn't exist for certain things and its not too big a stretch to use "typical" footage as a stand in.  I'm pretty sure that shot of a freighter exploding with its shockwave going out over the water has been destroyed in every battle in the pacific, as has that twin engined bomber with one burning edge crashing into the ocean while sailors cheer.

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:00 PM

bsteel4065

It would not surprise me at all that Pullman cars were made by Pullman for the train. There was a lot of businesss done with the Third Reich. Everyone seems to forget that Adolf Hitler was held in high regard by many countires before WW2.... he was even 'man of the year 1938' and made the cover of Time magazine on January 2nd 1939. This is true.

Keep in mind the cars - if they were built by Pullman - may have been done before Hitler's time in office. He may have just had the cars changed and armored etc. out of standard Reichsbahn sleeping cars. But I don't know if they were really "Pullman" cars in the sense of being Pullman built, they could have just been using "Pullman" as a generic term for a sleeping car - like "kleenex" or "thermos" is used today.

p.s. The fact that Hitler was Time's "Man of the Year" doesn't necessarily mean they approved of him. They've chosen the man they felt had the most impact - good or bad - on the world in the past year.

Stix
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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, January 19, 2011 5:31 AM

There is an awful lot of uninformed speculation on this thread....

Lilliput, originally an Austrian company and now Bachmann's German brand ,build HO models of these cars...

Here is an extract from the prototype notes to their model of the dining car from the "Amerika" train:

"Das Vorbild dieses Modells hat ein bewegtes Vorleben: Es war auf Wunsch der Reichsregierung als Geschenk für die italienische Regierung vorgeshen. Mit all den gewünschten Sondereinrichtungen wurde der Wagen aber so schwer, daß dreiachsige Drehgestelle nötig wurden. Eine Übergabe an Italien fand jedoch nicht statt. Der Wagen wurde in Sonderzug der Reichsregierung „Amerika“ eingestellt. Nach Kriegsende beschlagnahmte ihn die US-Army und gab ihn erst im Dezember 1951 an die DB zurück. Von dort gelangte er zur DSG, die ihn zunächst mietweise als SdrWR 6ü 10245 Ffm einsetzte, später dann kaufte und als WR 6ü 1227 betrieb. Im Juni 1973 wurde der Wagen ausgemustert."

Summarising (my German isn't that good), this car was built for Mussolini but not delivered. It was heavy due to the special fittings and needed three axle trucks. It was used in the "Amerika" government train. It was taken over by the US Army in 1945 and was transferred to the DSG via the DB in 1951, being withdrawn in 1973.

A photo of the model appears at:

http://www.liliput.de/index.php?option=com_artikel&link=99&hk=1&uk=7&a_id=796&link1=1&limit1=140&seite_a=8

Many of the vehicles including two versions of the anti-aircraft gun car are available.

No American built Pullman cars were used on the train or in Germany during this time.

The name "Pullman" was used in Europe to describe luxury day cars equivalent to USA "parlor" cars. The earliest of these built in the 1880s were built by Pullman, but later cars were built in Europe. These were all operated by the Wagon-Lits company (or the Pullman Company, owned by WL, in England) but one may have been used on Hitler's train. It is possible that the term was used to describe the day car used by Hitler or others although it was a German built special car like the others. 

M636C

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Posted by wabash2800 on Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:20 AM

I would suspect that even if the train was armored, it would still be a sitting duck. And if the train was not destroyed, the track certainly would be.  I would think that as paranoid as Hitler was, he would not have felt comfortable in a train on the battlefront.

As an aside, my mother grew up in Germany during WWII.  She would ride the train to school. Mom remembers vividly one day the train stopping out in the middle of nowhere and the people on board told to get off the train and seek shelter on the ground nearby as they were being attacked. My mother remembers being shot at by a fighter plane as it flew overhead. To this day, she thinks that most assuredly the pilot would have known that the people on the train were civilians and perhaps children. If mom could see the pilot from the ground, the pilot should have seen her. War is a terrible thing even if it is fought for the right reasons. Mom's dad was in the Kriegs Marine and deserted and went to England but not without loading the boat with folks that seeked refuge. My grandfather was given a letter of appreciation from an American General for his act that involved crossing the English Channel. My mother’s family was not Jewish but during the war the authorities came and took my grandfather's sister away to have her euthanized as she was retarded.

 

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Posted by NYC-Big 4 on Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:55 PM

Not a still picture but a video of a double headed train referred to as Hitler's Special Train.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxeakfgEpi0

"Hitler Leaves Munich on his Personal Train after the state visit by Admiral Horthy to Germany in August 1938. Amateur Agfacolor 16mm film."

There is additonal information on the train makeup also.  Once on this page there are other videos too, such as the German Railway Gun "GUSTAV". 

NYC Willy

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