Larry.
I grew up just south west of Cleveland. I remember the PC days and the failed Conrail time. Trains would take ages to go past the grade crossings. Going back home a couple years ago I stopped at the same crossing. The engines crossed by doing about 30 mph. By the end it was doing well over 60. East bound trains would be slow. Probably around 45 mph.
Living close to a three track main and industrial siding was interesting. PCs lines were being rebuilt. You could be stuck at a crossing for an hour. Late for school was a constant. Walking along the tracks was like a treasure hunt. Car parts littered both sides of every grade crossing. Drivers would speed down the dirt service roads to the next crossing to beat the trains only to wreck in the giant ruts and craters.
Good times.
Pete.
I model the BNSF and downloaded the employee timetable for the subdivision that I model. It sets the maximum speed and slower speeds between certain mileposts.
Caldreamer
NS speed limit through where I live is 35 mph.. After the last car clears the last street crossing the engineer can resume regular track speed. There's a speed restriction through most cities in Ohio.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
There was the famous case of the Milw back in the Thirties having a sign that read "Reduce Speed to 100 MPH" and several that said "Reduce to 90 MPH" before the ICC's edict http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25561 When I was stationed at Ft McCoy WI back in 79, there were still signs at the local RR crossing that warned about 100 MPH trains.
The last few days there has been a temporary speed restriction in effect for about a quarter mile on a track with a maximum timetable speed of 70 mph. The restriction is for 69 mph.
I'm still trying to figure that one out.
Jeff
Bayfield Transfer RailwayWhen did those regulations become operative?
Very specifically, in the Esch Act of 1920 that returned railroads from USRA Federal Control to private management. The actual speeds were expressed as round numbers (50, 60, and 80mph) but the wording states them AS the limits where the restrictions apply, so the maximum speed otherwise is 'one mph slower...'
These were deprecated in enforcement after about 1928 when the ICC shifted its safety interest from train control to grade-crossing issues. They came back with a bang, though, after the Naperville wreck in 1947 via a specific ICC order, and they have remained effective since.
Oh Lord yes. Mark Amfahr loves speed restriction orders, I think he'd hand them out by the bucket if he could.Considering most of the crew folks I get, "Extra 123 East meet Extra 456 West at Saxon, Extra 456 West take siding" is about as complicated as I dare to get.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Bayfield Transfer RailwayAs a crappy little backwoods short line with no signals and no intention to ever install signals, there is NO economic incentive to maintain the track to better than Class III standards, is there!
Sounds like Penn-Central's operating mantra in the late '70s
I was going to mention the use of temporary speed restrictions, sometimes these became permanent.
Train-order-19 by Edmund, on Flickr
"account track conditions...speed limit signs not in service"
In addition to train orders there were bulletin orders that crews had to be familiar with as well which would mention "special conditions" that may affect train operation. I remember some train crews would get a stack of a dozen or more speed restriction orders for one trip.
Sometimes speed limit signs were placed if, say an on-going track repair was in progress.
BnLE_Speed-sign by Edmund, on Flickr
These varied railroad by railroad. Often passenger and freight would have two different restrictions.
BnLE_Speed-sign2 by Edmund, on Flickr
I made some speed limit signs for my railroad recently.
Speed-signs-1 by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
Okay, thanks. Definitely early enough to affect my 1980s Bayfield Transfer Railway.As a crappy little backwoods short line with no signals and no intention to ever install signals, there is NO economic incentive to maintain the track to better than Class III standards, is there! (figuring 9 mph won't matter much in the long run)
Not sure, 1920's or 30's?
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman The other contingency on speed is whether or not there is a block signal system in place. If there is no block signal system then top speed is limited to 59 mph passenger and 49 mph freight. If there is a block signal system to speed is 79 mph passenger and 70 mph freight. If there are other signal systems above that the speeds can go up to 150 mph passenger (geometry and track quality permitting).
The other contingency on speed is whether or not there is a block signal system in place. If there is no block signal system then top speed is limited to 59 mph passenger and 49 mph freight. If there is a block signal system to speed is 79 mph passenger and 70 mph freight. If there are other signal systems above that the speeds can go up to 150 mph passenger (geometry and track quality permitting).
CN freight trains go through Burlington and Waukesha WI., at 10mph. per CN timetable speed restictions.
Mike.
My You Tube
I remember back in the sixties we took my brother to Beacon,NY, train depot, NYC railroad. Any how we were waiting on south bound platform, late evening, saw lights coming south, thought it was his train, but nope, an express, roared right through at speed, followed by a heavy freight train, also at speed. So, I believe there's no limit, it's controlled by traffic.
I think so. I sure do not remember the C&NW passenger trains going other than extremely fast when they went past the depot in my home town in the late 1960s. Maybe a slight application for the curve but it was very well super elevated and even there, it seemed like the same full speed they went out of town.
Years ago before the Santa Fe and BN merged into BNSF I was standing near the depot in Chillicothe IL (which is west of the Illinois River bridge that also goes over the Rock Island line to Peoria, and just east of the famous Edelstein Hill and Houlihan's Curve). The Amtrak Chief still stopped there at the time so it was an active depot with folks standing around on the platform near train time. A westbound intermodal came through and to this day I do not know if I have ever seen a faster freight train. It was breath taking. Now, Cillicothe IL is a small town but there is no real "downtown." The depot was kind of isolated near a few businesses and small restaurants and such. But again it was a depot where the public was expected to be standing trackside.
I suppose where small town depots also had operators who might be hooping up orders or displaying train order signals there might be a slow down for that reason. Crossings and facing point turnouts could be reasons for slowing down. At Rondout Illinois where the Milwaukee Road crossed the EJ&E and where the operator hooped up orders (into the 1990s!) the Hiawatha on the Milwaukee Road had a standard instruction: Reduce to 90. Reduce! Some bridges had their own speed limits, but interestingly sometimes the restriction prohibited applying the brakes while on the bridge due to the kinetic energy it would impose on the structure. It is thought the Keokuk Junction (ex TP&W) bridge over the Spoon River failed because of years of engineers disregarding that instruction about brake applications on the bridge proper. But my sense (and limited experience as a railfan, not a railroader) is that speed limits were speed limits and a town itself was no reason to slow down.
Dave Nelson
Speed limits are regulated by the FRA, but railroads can also set limits that fit local conditions. Track class is the quality of the track, which in turn dictates the maximum safe running speed. For example, class 1 track has a max speed limit of 10 mph for freight and 15 mph for passenger, whereas a higher rating like class 4 is 60 mph for freight and 80 mph for passenger. Things like curvature, signals and grade crossings also dictate speed limits. I couldn't find anything on speeds through depots, but I'd imagine that it probably works on the track class system like the rest of the line. Here's a link with info on railroad speed limits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_speed_limits_in_the_United_States
Short answer, yes.
Track speed is set by the curvature/superelevation of the track and the condition of the track.
http://www.jgmes.com/webstart/library/table_fra_track.htm
This document will give you all the track standards, you will have to go to chapter 5 :
https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=15770
Many communities put speed restrictions on tracks, so its always possible that some podunk place tried to put a speed restriction on the tracks. Most of those were removed in the 1980's-200's when the railroad won some lawsuits that the FRA and not the community is the only ones who have the authority to restrict the speed of trains.
I tried googling for this information but all I found out was that speed limits are based on the class of the track but doesn't indicate how those classes are assigned. I'm most curious about what the speed limit would be for a train going through a small town depot but not stopping. Since the towns on most model railroads are fairly close together, that would probably be the defacto speed limit for most of a model railroad.
I do remember a scene from the movie In Cold Blood where a Sante Fe passenger train, maybe The Chief, roared through what was probably either Holcomb or Garden City, Kansas. This movie was shot on location so it is likely one of those two towns. The train seemed not to slow down at all but tossed two bags of mail onto the depot platform as it went by. The movie was set in 1959 but probably was shot in 1966. Unless the Sante Fe staged this for them, this would have been a shot of a real train. Would it be normal for a train to go through one of those two towns at the same speed it would when out in open country?