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Setting brakes on cars when switching industries

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  • Member since
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  • From: Duluth, MN
  • 424 posts
Posted by OT Dean on Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:06 AM

dknelson
Dave, way back in my days of studying turn-of-the-century (20th) lore, I frequently saw the phrase "clubbed the brakes."  To have a better mechanical advantage, brakies carried what were sometimes referred to as a "Staff of Ignorance," a substantial club.  They'd tighten the wheel as tight as they could, or at least until there wasn't much slack, then shove the small end of this staff/club through the spokes of a brake wheel with the end of it against the staff, and tug on the outer end, kicking or shoving the pawl into a notch in the gear.  To release the brakes, he'd use the club again to take the strain off the pawl to release the gear.  In "Rairoads of the Black Hills," a brakeman on one of the narrow gauge railroads told the author, Mildred Fielder, that he and his coworkers liked new axe handles for this job.  Made of hickory, they're hard and resilient, just the right length.  This man told her they'd stick the squared-off head end under the wheel of a heavy, rolling freight car wheel to crush it off, leaving the smaller diameter just below for poking through the spokes.  My immediate thought was: "No wonder hoboes and others looking for free rides were afraid of brakemen!"

Deano

 

 
BRAKIE
Just for fun knowledge. On the cars with high mounted brakewheels,you climb the outside ladder,step around to the end ladder,place on foot on the brakewheel stand while keeping one foot on the end ladder,your left hand holds the running board grab iron then with your right hand you release or tighten the brake. After you set or release the handbrake, you step around to the side ladder and climb down.

 

Imagine what it must have been like during the earlier era of "K" brakes, wood running boards,  and smaller horizontal brake hand wheels when there was no "power" mechanism for the hand wheel.  Releasing the brakes was work, tightening the brakes was work, and perhaps two-handed work at that.  

Dave Nelson

 

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:52 AM

BRAKIE
Just for fun knowledge. On the cars with high mounted brakewheels,you climb the outside ladder,step around to the end ladder,place on foot on the brakewheel stand while keeping one foot on the end ladder,your left hand holds the running board grab iron then with your right hand you release or tighten the brake. After you set or release the handbrake, you step around to the side ladder and climb down.

Imagine what it must have been like during the earlier era of "K" brakes, wood running boards,  and smaller horizontal brake hand wheels when there was no "power" mechanism for the hand wheel.  Releasing the brakes was work, tightening the brakes was work, and perhaps two-handed work at that.  

Dave Nelson

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    February 2018
  • From: Danbury Freight Yard
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Posted by OldEngineman on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 10:27 PM

Some industries we'd switch "with air", other places not. It probably depended more on "how level" the area was than anything else.

I can remember working between the Croton West Yard (north of Croton Harmon station on the Hudson River) and the General Motors plant (now completely gone) just north of Tarrytown station. A big plant, it had its own yard of several tracks on the "river side" of the main line.

I believe once we got the inbound train into the yard, standard procedure was to "bleed off" all the cars, and switch them without air. We'd always have 2 engines (either SW1500's or B23-7's), plenty of braking power with the engines alone.

Once the conductor had it all lined up, we'd shove right into the plant (again, without air), and "set 'em up" on one track (could hold about 10 long cars), then do one or two more.

When the work was done, the conductor and brakeman (3-man crews in those days) would get the train together, put air into it, do a brake test, and then we'd shove out at the south end and head north back to Croton.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 9:26 PM

jeffhergert
Hand signals beyond what the rule book allows (I've heard them described as "outlaw" signals) can vary from railroad to railroad and even different locations on the same railroad. Especially now when the big class one carriers are made up of multiple ancestor roads. As long as everyone understands the 'outlaw' signals, they are allowed to be used. Jeff

Jeff,Even as a student brakeman on the PRR I was taught several"outlaw" hand signals and some of those none operating signals veried from crew to crew.. As a example,if a conductor held his hat in the air then waved his hat in a circle he was calling the brakemen in for new switching instructions or new orders to clear up asap... Of course a kicking motion meant to kick the cars back into the train. 

We all know a caboose was not to be humped however,nobody said they couldn't be kicked or be used a flying switch move in order to get the caboose on the correct end of the train.. A brakeman would ride the platform in order to operate the hand brake.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 9:09 PM

chutton01
Perhaps your instructor was Mr. Glen Roper, star of this interesting and somewhat amusing 1970s UP instructional video "Getting Off On The Right Foot". who states in the video "Gravity, with all the horsepower of the Earth, is now the engine" as a cut of freight cars with insufficent handbrakes set roll away...

No..His name was Patterson a former ARFE that moved up the ladder to instructor.. I knew the man well since he was our neighbor six house up the street and his kids and I attended the same elementary school.. Off the job he was a very nice guy on the job he was all business.

He also gave us a grave warning. You been taught good solid safety rules that was written after a employee was killed or hurt.. 

But,without fail one of you will be killed or lose a arm or leg because you took a high risk short cut.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by chutton01 on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 8:28 PM

BRAKIE
As my instructor taught us in safety class..

The most powerful locomotive on earth is gravity and just because the track looks flat to the eye that may not be the case. Always but,always set at least 3 handbrakes and never bottle your air thinking that will hold the cars. The air could leak off  and then your cars may start rolling.


Perhaps your instructor was Mr. Glen Roper, star of this interesting and somewhat amusing 1970s UP instructional video "Getting Off On The Right Foot". who states in the video "Gravity, with all the horsepower of the Earth, is now the engine" as a cut of freight cars with insufficent handbrakes set roll away...


On the cars with high mounted brakewheels,you climb the outside ladder,step around to the end ladder,place on foot on the brakewheel stand while keeping one foot on the end ladder,your left hand holds the running board grab iron then with your right hand you release or tighten the brake. After you set or release the handbrake, you step around to the side ladder and climb down.

Much like Mr. Glen Roper does in this portion of the video.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 6:01 PM

BRAKIE

 As a example.

A easy way to remember hand signals for going forward and back up.. "Go away!" Pull forward while "Come to me" means to back up.

 

 

We would have trouble communicating where I work.  The hand signal for "Go Away from me" means just that.  Move away from the person giving the signal. The hand signal "Come to me" also means just that.  Move towards the person giving the signal.  Movement does not depend on which way the engine (where the "F" is) is orientated.  They are daylight only signals.  

At night, using lantern signals we use "go forward" and "go backward" which does depend on the engine's orientation.

Hand signals beyond what the rule book allows (I've heard them described as "outlaw" signals) can vary from railroad to railroad and even different locations on the same railroad.  Especially now when the big class one carriers are made up of multiple ancestor roads.  As long as everyone understands the 'outlaw' signals, they are allowed to be used.  

Jeff 

 

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Posted by Water Level Route on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 11:43 AM

Larry & Dave,

Thanks for the info.  Always good to learn more about the actual workings of these great machines.

TRNJ,

Didn't mean to hijack your thread.  It's just that these guys are such great sources of information...

Mike

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  • From: Omaha, NE
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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 8:37 AM

Water Level Route
I always thought "bottling your air" meant isolating the cars you are about to drop via the anglecock with the train air line charged, therefore, no active brake on the car.

"Bottling the air" is any time you close the angle cocks on either end of a cut of cars with the train line charged.  That can be with either the brakes applied or released.

It is especially problematic with modern brakes and longer cuts.  In a modern brake system the brakes will vent into the train line to speed up the charging of the train line.  If there is a pulse in the train line that one control valve senses as being a sufficient rise in the train line pressure to release the brakes, it will vent its air into the train line, which will cause the car to release its brakes and vent, etc. 

The cause of the plulse can be closing the angle cock while the brakes are still venting .  Air is a "fluid' so there can be "waves" in it and the waves can flow back and forth in the train line.  When venting air you have all the air in the train line flowing toward the engine.  If the angle cock is closed while still venting, all that air will still be moving toward the engine, it will "pile up" against the angle cock, creating a pulse.  That effect can release thebrakes quickly.  Plain ole leaking cn release the brakes slowly.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 7:23 AM

Water Level Route

 

 
BRAKIE
never bottle your air thinking that will hold the cars. The air could leak off  and then your cars may start rolling.

 

I always thought "bottling your air" meant isolating the cars you are about to drop via the anglecock with the train air line charged, therefore, no active brake on the car.  Done to speed re-airing up the string of cars you are about to disconnect from (thinking you are returning to them shortly).  Must have been a different term for that?  Thanks!  I learn something new every day.

 

 

Mike,Its the same thing basically.. A lot of the instructors wanted to point out bottling the air was not safe and against the rules. Every instructor I had had a different way of teaching while getting the same point across..

As a example.

A easy way to remember hand signals for going forward and back up.. "Go away!" Pull forward while "Come to me" means to back up.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    February 2015
  • From: Ludington, MI
  • 1,862 posts
Posted by Water Level Route on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:49 AM

BRAKIE
never bottle your air thinking that will hold the cars. The air could leak off  and then your cars may start rolling.

I always thought "bottling your air" meant isolating the cars you are about to drop via the anglecock with the train air line charged, therefore, no active brake on the car.  Done to speed re-airing up the string of cars you are about to disconnect from (thinking you are returning to them shortly).  Must have been a different term for that?  Thanks!  I learn something new every day.

Mike

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Duluth, MN
  • 424 posts
Posted by OT Dean on Monday, November 25, 2019 11:57 PM

BRAKIE
And another thing to consider is that when a car without air (as it will be, I'm sure) is picked up again, there'll be a pause while the air system recharges the train line and fills the reservoir.  I remember some discussion on this topic in MR, way back when, as it could make operating sessions more realistic, and interesting, just as any locomotive coupled onto an outgoing train also has to charge the air system and then run a brake test.  And don't forget the whistle/horn signals: twice before moving forward, three times before backing.  (A dead giveaway of tourist trains is the amount of spurious tooting on a steam engine's whistle.  I don't begrudge the paid passengers their steam whistles; after all, they're the ones who pay for keeping trains in motion!)

Deano

 

 
trnj

What was the practice of setting brakes on cars when switching industries or industrial parks?  Were the air hoses connected each time or were the brakes manually released?

 

 

 

As my instructor taught us in safety class..

The most powerful locomotive on earth is gravity and just because the track looks flat to the eye that may not be the case. Always but,always set at least 3 handbrakes and never bottle your air thinking that will hold the cars. The air could leak off  and then your cars may start rolling.

And while you are chasing those runaways you can be thinking of what you will be telling the Superindent when he asks "Why wasn't the hand brakes set?" since bottling air is against the operating rules as well as safety rules.

Before coupling to a standing car be sure the handbrake is on because once you couple the cars together the pin may not fall and the car could start rolling from making the joint.

As far as the air hose we would connect the car's air hose once we coupled to the train but,it would not be connected to the cars we are sitting out. We would check all air valves to ensure they are in their proper position before making the pickup.

We never ever coupled onto a car without stopping after making the joint and after releasing the handbrake after we checked the coupler pin to ensure it did indeed drop and the cars are firmly coupled ,then and only then we would proceed to the next pickup in line..

Just for fun knowledge.

On the cars with high mounted brakewheels,you climb the outside ladder,step around to the end ladder,place on foot on the brakewheel stand while keeping one foot on the end ladder,your left hand holds the running board grab iron then with your right hand you release or tighten the brake. After you set or release the handbrake, you step around to the side ladder and climb down.

 

  • Member since
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  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, November 25, 2019 9:34 PM

trnj

What was the practice of setting brakes on cars when switching industries or industrial parks?  Were the air hoses connected each time or were the brakes manually released?

 

As my instructor taught us in safety class..

The most powerful locomotive on earth is gravity and just because the track looks flat to the eye that may not be the case. Always but,always set at least 3 handbrakes and never bottle your air thinking that will hold the cars. The air could leak off  and then your cars may start rolling.

And while you are chasing those runaways you can be thinking of what you will be telling the Superindent when he asks "Why wasn't the hand brakes set?" since bottling air is against the operating rules as well as safety rules.

Before coupling to a standing car be sure the handbrake is on because once you couple the cars together the pin may not fall and the car could start rolling from making the joint.

As far as the air hose we would connect the car's air hose once we coupled to the train but,it would not be connected to the cars we are sitting out. We would check all air valves to ensure they are in their proper position before making the pickup.

We never ever coupled onto a car without stopping after making the joint and after releasing the handbrake after we checked the coupler pin to ensure it did indeed drop and the cars are firmly coupled ,then and only then we would proceed to the next pickup in line..

Just for fun knowledge.

On the cars with high mounted brakewheels,you climb the outside ladder,step around to the end ladder,place on foot on the brakewheel stand while keeping one foot on the end ladder,your left hand holds the running board grab iron then with your right hand you release or tighten the brake. After you set or release the handbrake, you step around to the side ladder and climb down.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Monday, November 25, 2019 4:43 PM

  Normally, when the air hoses 'part', the air brake go to full 'applied'.  There is a rod with a bend or handle near the control valve.  Pulling it will release the air in brake cylinder,  One then has to hang onto the car with the engine.  Once the car is 'spotted', the hand brake is fully applied.

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Setting brakes on cars when switching industries
Posted by trnj on Monday, November 25, 2019 3:44 PM

What was the practice of setting brakes on cars when switching industries or industrial parks?  Were the air hoses connected each time or were the brakes manually released?

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