dehusman There are 2 switches and three tracks. The caboose would be on the leading end (otherwise, what's the point?). If the caboose is next to the engine, somebody STILL has to ride the leading car. Assuming that they also have to pull cars, they would drive up, pull the outbound cars, set the caboose and outbound cars over to another track then shove the spot cars, then go back to the pulls and caboose, get them and then go back to the train where they have to rearrange things again to get the caboose on the rear of the train.
There are 2 switches and three tracks. The caboose would be on the leading end (otherwise, what's the point?). If the caboose is next to the engine, somebody STILL has to ride the leading car.
Assuming that they also have to pull cars, they would drive up, pull the outbound cars, set the caboose and outbound cars over to another track then shove the spot cars, then go back to the pulls and caboose, get them and then go back to the train where they have to rearrange things again to get the caboose on the rear of the train.
Thanks Dave. Makes sense to me now.
It's been a long time since last I worked on my trains. I'm yet again a grasshopper in training
Thanks all for your inputs.
Tom
Tom Bryant_MRIt is not clear in my mind how this would work. Assuming caboose would be between engine and 1st tanker, crew would need to walk to end of cut to do anything . . . If caboose at end then there is no way to extract it after the set out is done.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
gregcwhat if it's raining? even if it's < mile
This is growing into a case where the cure is worse than the problem.
The train arrives at the location. The caboose is on the rear of the train. The set out, since its blocked, is on the head of the train. The crew has to run around the cars (since in the diagram they are shoving, nose first, on the cut to be spotted) and not only get the caboose from the rear of the train to the front of the train, but on the front of the cars to be shoved.
Then they have to shove a half mile. At 4 mph (walking speed) that takes 7-8 min.
When you get to the industry then you have to do something with the caboose when you switch the tracks.
Then you have to gather up the caboose and head back to the train. Once you get there you have to get the caboose back to the rear of the train, and get the cars on the train (which depending on how you have arranged it) may be able to be done in the same move. Lastly the engine has to get back on the train.
At all those extra switching moves there has to be a brakeman walking around in the rain to line the switches, couple cars, uncouple cars. You have added 20 min of walking around in the rain and a half dozen extra moves just to save 8 minutes of riding in the rain.
You work for the railroad. If its raining, you're going to get wet. Railroad workers don't make a higher rate of pay to ride around on a train, they get paid more because of the times they have to be outside at 35 degrees, in the rain, at 3:00am.
Tom Bryant_MR BRAKIE OTOH shoving for less then a mile with a caboose would be the call of the conductor. Some times that call was based on the neighborhood-remember a lot of urban industrial leads wasn't in the best of neighborhoods. Nothing like returning to your caboose only to find its been burglarize. It is not clear in my mind how this would work. Assuming caboose would be between engine and 1st tanker, crew would need to walk to end of cut to do anything . . . If caboose at end then there is no way to extract it after the set out is done. What am I missing ?
BRAKIE OTOH shoving for less then a mile with a caboose would be the call of the conductor. Some times that call was based on the neighborhood-remember a lot of urban industrial leads wasn't in the best of neighborhoods. Nothing like returning to your caboose only to find its been burglarize.
OTOH shoving for less then a mile with a caboose would be the call of the conductor. Some times that call was based on the neighborhood-remember a lot of urban industrial leads wasn't in the best of neighborhoods. Nothing like returning to your caboose only to find its been burglarize.
It is not clear in my mind how this would work. Assuming caboose would be between engine and 1st tanker, crew would need to walk to end of cut to do anything . . .
If caboose at end then there is no way to extract it after the set out is done.
What am I missing ?
Rookie. If there is a second track(like in the above diagram) at the industry that is where we would place the caboose and then do the required work.
In some cases there would be a rider car already at the industry if there was we would take the caboose(depending on the neighborhood) and go get our pickups along with the rider car and return shoving the caboose,setouts and the rider car. The rider car could be a old wooden caboose or a flat car with steps and handrails.
Even though it was not a very safe perch and as a very last resort we would ride the end tanker to protect the shove and if there was any crossings to be flag that would require a stop since swinging off and on a tanker was dangerous since there was no ladder to hold on to while swinging aboard. Riding the narrow walkway of a tanker was something we did not cherrish.
Remember unlike today's one to three man crews, we had a four to five man crews and there was safety rules to follow as well. There may be the need to flag crossings as well and unlike today we would swing off the caboose or car(exception being a tank car or flatcar) and flag the crossing.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Tom Bryant_MR SPSOT fan A caboose (or shoving platfom in modern times) would only be used when it would be more difficult for a crew member to stand on the ladder for a long amount of time. Thanks Isaac. Had not thought of time . . .
SPSOT fan A caboose (or shoving platfom in modern times) would only be used when it would be more difficult for a crew member to stand on the ladder for a long amount of time.
A caboose (or shoving platfom in modern times) would only be used when it would be more difficult for a crew member to stand on the ladder for a long amount of time.
Thanks Isaac. Had not thought of time . . .
Placing cars in a track is a switching move. Shoving the train a few miles to get to the track is not a switching move. A shoving platform wouldn't be used for the switch moves. On a stub track you would strand the caboose if you shoved it in first.
The supplying of a shoving platform or a caboose in earlier times is/was often a work rules requirement of the labor contract(s) in effect. It's not to say a non-union short line wouldn't have one, but it would be at their discretion.
And even if a contract requires one to be available, it doesn't mean crews will always use it. I worked an industry job where all the industries handled had trailing point switches on the outward leg of the trip. The fartherest industry being about 2 miles from the yard. You did the work on the way out and shoved back when done. Normally no one used the caboose provided for the shoves. Even in rainy or moderately snowy weather most didn't want to do the extra moves to use the caboose. So we shoved back with a switchman riding the point on the side of a car.
Jeff
BRAKIE OTOH shoving for less then a mile with a caboose would be the call of the conductor. Some times that call was based on the neighbor-remember a lot of urban industrial leads wasn't in the best of neighborhoods. Nothing like returning to your caboose only to find its been burglarize.
OTOH shoving for less then a mile with a caboose would be the call of the conductor. Some times that call was based on the neighbor-remember a lot of urban industrial leads wasn't in the best of neighborhoods. Nothing like returning to your caboose only to find its been burglarize.
BRAKIEwho in their right mind would want to hang on the side of a boxcar or gon?
what if it's raining? even if it's < mile
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
For a normal shove into a siding no caboose is needed. For extended shoves then you better bet we would take our caboose since a mile is a very long shove and who in their right mind would want to hang on the side of a boxcar or gon? Tankcars wasn't a safe perch either and the last car we would willingly swing onto...A flat car wasn't any better.
Hi Y'all,
It depends. As previously stated, it's only needed if it's being shunted a couple of miles. I would say it's not needed, but in real life a loco guide would be needed for the engineer to guage where the bumper or stop point is, to know when to close the throttle and pull the brake.
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I'm beginning to realize that being tall is a curse.
I agree with what has been previously stated, a caboose would only be needed if the shove is going on for a few miles.
I've seen crew members will often ride on the ladders at the end of the train a comunicate with the engineer by radio to tell him how much farther he had to go. A caboose (or shoving platfom in modern times) would only be used when it would be more difficult for a crew member to stand on the ladder for a long amount of time.
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Short answer, no.
The engineer on a shoving move would be following the signals of the crew members on the ground. When shoving cars, a crew member has to be either riding the leading car or on the ground in advance of the move to protect the shove. They would tell the engineer what to do with either hand/lantern signals (roughly pre-1980) or by radio (roughly post 1980).
A caboose might be used if the crew is shoving for more than a mile or miles. Less than a mile or so the crew would just ride the cars on the shove. Especially "back in the day".
I'm curious about the use of or necessity of a caboose. In the example below, MKT 104 is pushing a cut of tankers into a stub end track. Train is traversing a couple of switches to get there. My initial thought here as to needing one is that the engineer cannot see well where the cut of cars are.
Under what, if any, conditions would a caboose be needed, recommended or prototpical ?
Appreciate your thoughts !