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Big Boy 4014

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 8:15 AM

Maybe this is a bit closer to how they did those really big wheels?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ-idHka0Zo

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Posted by selector on Monday, May 13, 2019 6:25 PM

There are different ways of achieving the aim, but this is a common one, and the tire diameter doesn't matter a whole lot...same process, a bit slower mebbe.

https://youtu.be/Im7FcwpbO1A

 

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Posted by railandsail on Monday, May 13, 2019 3:42 PM

Replacing a BIG driver tire?

Is there a video, or a good series of photos of the replacement of the 'tire' on one of those really BIG driver wheels??

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Posted by selector on Monday, May 13, 2019 1:39 PM

It's important to understand that horsepower is what makes any conveyance capable of moving tonnage over distance at a given rate. The greater the available horsepower, the faster you can get things done.  What limits the ability to apply horsepower to the rails on a steamer is it's adhesion...how sticky its tires are on the rails without spinning. As Mr. Krug explained in the widely disseminated paper years ago, horsepower is what helps a locomotive to keep to a timetable under changing demands.  For example, for each rise of 0.5% grade, a steamer's boiler must be able to provide 3 times the previous horsepower...IF one wants to retain the same speed.  If you don't mind slowing to a crawl, and can do that within schedules, then you needn't pour on the coal to keep speed. However, if the trailing tonnage is such that it causes the drivers to spin due to gravity on that same grade, all the horsepower in the world won't do a lick of good because the locomotive can't apply it without spinning out.  Train stalls, calls for a pusher, or breaks up the consist and takes half of it over the top, or it has to back and await help, whichever is most expedient and can be done safely.

The ideal locomotive produces only as much horsepower as it can apply to the rails.  Any more might be nice to have, but it's really wasted potential if all it will do is make the drivers spin under the locomotive.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, May 13, 2019 8:15 AM

Thanks Greg

Henry

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By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by railandsail on Sunday, May 12, 2019 6:48 PM

Big thanks Sheldon, that was a very interesting comparison of those big steamers.

Since my model railroad is going to span the distance from the east coast to the west coast, I get to have a little of both,...so I have a big boy, several H8's, and some of those N&W's. Yes

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, May 11, 2019 10:32 PM

railandsail

 

 
rrinker

 Steam was gone in the US by the time I was born, but from an early age I've been on various tourist railroads riding behind steam. Even some smaller stuff, like 18" gauge and 1 1/2" scale. Plenty of full size standard gauge steam locos - we are lucky to have many operating steam locos around here. 

 Funny thing, while Alco diesels are my favorites, I do like Baldwin switchers, abd Baldwin steam locos - probably from having a copy of Fred Westing's Baldwin book since I was a kid, and there is a page comparing the Big Boy to the DM&IR Yellowstones which outdid the Big Boy in some characteristics.

                                            --Randy

 

 

 

 

How about a comparision with the C&O Allegheny?

 

To best understand such comparisons, start by reading this:

http://steam.wesbarris.com/misc/largest.php

Amoung "successful" large steam designs, the BIG BOY is one of the leaders, but by no means the "best" or most powerful in any way.

The N&W Y6b had considerablely more tractive effort, 170,000 vs the BigBoy's 135,000.

The N&W Class A and the C&O H8 have 125,000 and 110,000 respectively.

Both the Class A and the H8 were more "nimble", that is they could maintain higher speeds on sharper curves, and "loose" less TE to the curve than a Big Boy - that is important in the east were routes are nearly continiously curving.

The Big Boy was faster - given a straight open road - 80 mph vs about 60 for the H8.

The H8 had the highest axle load weight, at 85,000 lbs, requiring exceptional track and road bed, the Class A also was heavy on each axle at 72,000 lbs, while the Big Boy is more "conventional" at only 67,000 lbs.

The C&O and the N&W were known for their exceptional and heavily built trackage, somewhat typical in the east. 

The H8 wins in the HP department, at 7,498 compared to 6,345 for the Big Boy.

Here is another good comparison chart:

http://steam.wesbarris.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=2-6-6-6

The C&O never really used the H8 to its potential, it would have been interesting to how well they might have done in other types of service rather than slugging coal trains.

I think it is great that 4014 has been restored, but as an east coast modeler, I own Class A's and H8's, no Big Boys.......

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by Lonnie Utah on Friday, May 10, 2019 9:56 AM

riogrande5761
But what kills it for me is there seems to always be a diesel "baby sitter" when you see steam run anymore.  This just ruins it for me.  It's like they don't trust steam or the lawyers or something.  

 

One of the things much talked about among the railfans I talked to is/was UP should have used the sole remaining operational Centennial (6936) to escort the Big Boy and 844 to Utah.  The Big Boy and Centennial running together would have been a sight to see. 

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Posted by railandsail on Friday, May 10, 2019 7:03 AM

rrinker

 Steam was gone in the US by the time I was born, but from an early age I've been on various tourist railroads riding behind steam. Even some smaller stuff, like 18" gauge and 1 1/2" scale. Plenty of full size standard gauge steam locos - we are lucky to have many operating steam locos around here. 

 Funny thing, while Alco diesels are my favorites, I do like Baldwin switchers, abd Baldwin steam locos - probably from having a copy of Fred Westing's Baldwin book since I was a kid, and there is a page comparing the Big Boy to the DM&IR Yellowstones which outdid the Big Boy in some characteristics.

                                            --Randy

 

 

How about a comparision with the C&O Allegheny?

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, May 10, 2019 6:15 AM

It's definitely nice to see a big steam engine restored and operational.

But what kills it for me is there seems to always be a diesel "baby sitter" when you see steam run anymore.  This just ruins it for me.  It's like they don't trust steam or the lawyers or something.  

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by gregc on Friday, May 10, 2019 3:31 AM

driver wheel diameter of 68", cylinder sizes ~24x32", adhesive weight of 540 tons (see Big Boy)

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, May 09, 2019 3:53 PM

Henry

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Posted by oldline1 on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 3:16 PM

Well, I have to admit to not being a big fan of the Union Pacific and especially the Big Boy but I have to be amazed at the sight of the 4014 actually running in 2019! My admiration for the UP Steam Program and just what you can do with money and determination. Just a shame the Challenger isn't with them and 4449 wasn't there to represent the other part of the Golden Spike team. I'm glad the 844 is along to share the glory. The FEF's are my one class of UP steam I love to see.

Thank you, UP, for making so many folks world wide happy! 

oldline1

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 8:14 AM

Fox Business just had a short live bit on 4014 and said they would be following it live, all day.  It's not going to be like George Bush's train, but they did have a decent close up of the engine.  If you don't like Fox, turn the sound down.

I don't see anything right now on Youtube that is live.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 07, 2019 8:53 AM

 The 3 Erie ones could barely make 10mph, and the Virginian one was barely good for 5mph. Utter failures. Too slow even for the helper service hey were designed for.

                                           --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Eastrail11 on Monday, May 06, 2019 2:29 PM

Why only have 2 sets of drivers when you can have 3, The Triplex Laugh

~Eastrail

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, May 06, 2019 10:47 AM

SPSOT fan
Big steam just doesn’t excite me as much.

After seeing C&O Allegheny and N&W Y6Bs in action in the mid 50s as a child. I will agree with you for one reason..Those engines and PRR J1s scared the living daylights out of me!! Surprise

N&W 4-8-0 #444 became "my" engine after the crew allowed me in the cab and let me blow the whistle and took me for a short cab ride while switching Krogers bakery in Columbus,Oh. I cried when I went to watch "my" engine switch the bakery only to find it was replaced by a shiny new GP9 and the 444 was taken away never to be seen again.Crying 

Heart broken at such a tender age.

Larry

SSRy

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“Shut one’s eyes tight or open one’s arms wide, either way, one’s a fool.” Flemeth-the witch of the Wilds.
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Posted by Lonnie Utah on Monday, May 06, 2019 10:00 AM

I'm taking the boy out of school on WED and we're getting up early and driving west to see 4014 make it's run from Evanston, Wy into Utah.... 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, May 06, 2019 7:17 AM

 We'll make an honorary Reading man out of you yet, Wayne!

Big Smile

 With any luck, there may be TWO of them running. R&N is slowly but surely working on getting 2102 back in shape. Since they actually set up a passenger station on the outskirts of Reading (mostly RDCs for now - but ex-Reading RDCs), I'm hoping in a few years they will run trains headed by 2102 from there. 

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, May 06, 2019 12:17 AM

The first time I went to Steam Town, I arrived early, and wandered around looking at the outdoor displays.  I was, of course, drawn to the Big Boy, which was impressive. 
However, I was even more impressed by the T-1 on the other side of the parking lot, making me regret not having seen any of them run when they were in excursion service, not all that far from my home in southern Ontario.

I do intend to see the 4014 running, though, sometime later this summer.

Wayne

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Sunday, May 05, 2019 10:36 PM

Uhhh, well I guess I don’t have a life outside of school and train things...

In truth it’s because I read about trains a lot (last year I checked pretty much every train book at my local library) and also know some retired railroaders who tell me a lot of stuff.

It helps that I don’t work...

Regards, Isaac

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, May 05, 2019 1:22 PM

SPSOT, tell me a story, since your in your late teens, have you spent your young life immersed in a railroad university? or are you just one huge sponge and can soak up everything you read?  Or both?  Laugh

You haven't lived long enough to experience everything you seem to know about.  Amazing.   Surprise

We have another young man in here, your age, and when he landed in here a couple or 3 years ago, he came in with both guns a'blazin'  Laugh  He pretty much hangs in the diner now, as he's busy with work, and such.

Mike.

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Sunday, May 05, 2019 12:09 PM

tstage

B-e-e-g steam (e.g. articulateds) always seems to turn heads...and rightfully so.  Give me a long line of freight cars though double-headed by a couple of long-lived, heavy Mikes or Mountains to turn my crank.  

I must agree that smaller steam has a lot more charm that a big boy, or even a yellowstone or Z8. I must say I was much more excited about the restoration of Skookum (a 2-4-4-2 logger) than the big boy. If I had a steam model railroad, I would run geared locos and a few small, older steamers like a mogul or a modern american, but nothing larger than a consolidation. Big steam just doesn’t excite me as much.

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, May 05, 2019 11:32 AM

B-e-e-g steam (e.g. articulateds) always seems to turn heads...and rightfully so.  Give me a long line of freight cars though double-headed by a couple of long-lived, heavy Mikes or Mountains to turn my crank. Stick out tongue

Tom

http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, May 05, 2019 8:20 AM

BNSF UP and others modeler
locomotive and sound decoder work very well and there are no details missing...

A whole different generation of locomotive buyers.  I was in second heaven when I could buy my first Athearn BB GP35.  Laugh  Decoder?  Sound?  

And then I learned how to get rid of the metal strip, It didn't get any better than that!  

The yellowstones seem "closer to home" to me, used on the DM&IR.  I'd have to build a lay out to fit an HO scale yellowstone.  Laugh  I don't think it would work on my 24" radius! Laugh

To me the big boy and the yellowstone were just big steam locomotives.  I really know nothing about'em, as with steam, in general.

Mike.

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Saturday, May 04, 2019 5:05 PM

We will see if scaletrains makes a 4-8-8-4. They haven't done any steam locos yet...

YIKES!! $16,000!! I'll wait for the price of brass to go down some more first.Big Smile

BNSF: Big and Noisy but Surely Fascinating!

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, May 04, 2019 3:27 PM

BRAKIE
Yes! Let's make that a Scale Trains "Museum Quality" Big Boy.

Or, in a slightly larger scale?

https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/057829/Gauge-1-Brass-Model-Train-FAM-Fine-Art-Models-UP-Union-Pacific-4-8-8-4-Big-Boy-4000-w-Display

I'll take two!

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, May 04, 2019 3:17 PM

mbinsewi
I'm beginning to know you BN, would you actually pay the price for a "top quality" model? with out kicking and screaming ?

Yes! Let's make that a Scale Trains "Museum Quality" Big Boy.Smile, Wink & Grin

That would centainly fill BN's wish for a top quality Big Boy.Big Smile

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

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Posted by selector on Saturday, May 04, 2019 1:27 PM

rrinker

 And the Yellowstones outperformed the Big Boy in several areas, even if the Big Boy was longer and heavier.

 Big Boy may be the BIGGEST US steam loco, but they weren't the most powerful.

 

                                            --Randy

 

 

While not entirely definitive (there is the odd mistake in the information from loco-to-loco), the site 

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/

has some very useful, and instructive, information about steam locomotives.

Boiler horsepower is one thing, but the weight and driver configuration is a powerful determinant of how much tractive effort a given steamer can apply to the rails. A lowly Pennsylvania "hippo" I1sa generated more tractive effort than the large Union Pacific Challengers, just as a ferinstance. The Pennsy's Q2 was reputed to develop nearly 7500 hp.  It's tractive effort was modest compared to the Big Boy, Allegheny, Yellowstone, and the Y Mallets, but that horsepower meant it could sustain higher speeds with heavier tonnages than could a boiler producing significantly less horsepower.  It was in lifting the same tonnage to 20 mph that the others came out on top, and they could sustain that speed, perhaps with some help, on the significant grades for which they were designed and on which they were used.

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