I think the OP is putting too much thought into this. If you have to have a prototypical reason for the railroad to go into an actual town where there wasn't a railroad, you'll fail to find a good reason.
All of the railroads avoided those towns because it didn't make economic sense in the first place. If you mimick their reasoning to the nth degree, you'll conclude the same thing.
My advice:
Pick a town(s) you like that have/had a railroad. Switch out that railroad for your freelanced road. Pretend your railroad got there first before the other one.
If you want more traffic through your town than what the prototype had, pretend the next town down the line and off the layout has some big traffic generation factory that was never there. Its off layout, so you don't have to think about it very much. Just run the extra trains.
But in choosing a route from scratch, try to follow rivers as they were natural pathways and tend to have fewer grades. Also, bridges are expensive so railroads tended to wind through valleys to avoiding having to cross rivers, or went a bit out of their way to cross a narrower part of the river. Short bridges cost less than long ones.
- Douglas
Welcome to the forums!
That seems like a great story, but it lost me, or should I say I got lost, as it all runs together, like one giant paragraph, which made start to try and speed read it, that's where I got lost.
But anyway, it's all good. Nice to know the beginnings of your railroad.
Mike.
My You Tube
perrylambI've then gone back in time and pulled the histories of the real railroads that were pieced together to form the UC&W before the purchase of NS. I've put all of that into a PowerPoint presentation that also serves as a marketing tool for the railroad, featuring its deparments, facilities and operations. Pretty cool if you ask me. :)
WOW, or should I say OMG Now that is over the top.
I just never had a clue that modelers would get so involve with the "history" of their freelance railroad, that never excisted.
I guess your having fun!
My railroad, the Utah, Colorado & Western draws heavily from the prototype UP and BNSF railroads (until it purchases NS for cash!). Therefore, I looked at the the fleets of equipment both of those railroads own or interact with when determing the locomotove types and numbers for my layout. As has been pointed out, we can't fully model a prototype (well, mostly), but we can take excerpts from it. Go find the prototype you are freelancing from and look at their rosters.
I've then gone back in time and pulled the histories of the real railroads that were pieced together to form the UC&W before the purchase of NS. I've put all of that into a PowerPoint presentation that also serves as a marketing tool for the railroad, featuring its deparments, facilities and operations. Pretty cool if you ask me. :)
mbinsewisomething that does actually happen, your town was served by a real railroad, they left, sold off trackage that your town and a few others were on, such as a branchline, to your railroad.
.
Great example, and it actually happened in Lee County, Florida where I live. The Seminole Gulf Railroad took over the old Seaboard System trackage.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Routing depends on what you are trying to do and how much you care about the real world. Creating your own completely ficticious line and then asking "how would this work prototypically?" usually doesn't end well if the people answering are knowledgeable and honest.
A person created an imaginary line between the BNSF in new Mexico and the UP in Texas, then asked what run through bridge traffic trains between the BNSF and UP would operate over the line? The answer is none. The UP and BNSF lines are roughly parallel and connect at LA and in Texas. There would be zero financial incentive to either road to involve a shortline as bridge carrier in the middle Whoever originated the traffic would carry it all the way to the other end and maximize their profit. It would be very easy to dis-incentivise schedules, rates and service to encourage shippers to eliminate the middle man.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
ncandstl576Thanks mancosbob! I found your blog very interesting,
I agree, very interesting.
And to add to Kevin's scenarios, something that does actually happen, your town was served by a real railroad, they left, sold off trackage that your town and a few others were on, such as a branchline, to your railroad.
BUT, just a word of warning, as what also has happened in the real world, if your railroad becomes successful and nicely profitable, be warned, you may have to fight off a take-over or a buy-out by the big national operators of such lines, such as Progessive Rail, or WATCO. Just warning you.
mancosbob Howdy, my railroad is the Arizona Southern, and it grew out of the info in a book about about Railroads of Arizona, Vol. 1: The Southern Roads by David F. Myrick. The real RR went the way of the Dodo many moons ago, but in my universe it survived and became standard gauged later in its life. Rather than bore everybody with a rehashing of the AZSO timeline and history, I'll just a leave a link to the blog for those who care about such things. https://mancosbobsarizonasouthernrr.blogspot.com/ Suffice it to say I tend to overthink things too. Starting with rosters for engines and cars alike, there is a named passenger train, map, and even an employee newsletter floating around depending on the year I'm doing at the moment. This project began late in 1987, but had been on my mind since the late 1970's when I discovered the book referenced above. Peace, John Huey
Howdy, my railroad is the Arizona Southern, and it grew out of the info in a book about about Railroads of Arizona, Vol. 1: The Southern Roads by David F. Myrick.
The real RR went the way of the Dodo many moons ago, but in my universe it survived and became standard gauged later in its life. Rather than bore everybody with a rehashing of the AZSO timeline and history, I'll just a leave a link to the blog for those who care about such things.
https://mancosbobsarizonasouthernrr.blogspot.com/
Suffice it to say I tend to overthink things too. Starting with rosters for engines and cars alike, there is a named passenger train, map, and even an employee newsletter floating around depending on the year I'm doing at the moment. This project began late in 1987, but had been on my mind since the late 1970's when I discovered the book referenced above.
Peace,
John Huey
ncandstl576I meant real towns.
If you are going to use real towns on a freelanced railroad, there are three situations I can think of.
1) This town was never served by a real railroad, but your railroad saw an opportunity and extended rail service there.
2) This town was served by a real railroad and your railroad now interchanges with that railroad, and maybe serves a few customers.
3) This town was served by a real railroad, but in your world of nonsense that railroad does not exist in this town, so your railroad replaces it.
I can easily see where any of these three situations can be made to saound plausible.
SeeYou190 ncandstl576 In cases where a route is completely fictitious, is it a good idea to use modern day highway and interstate routes to help with plotting the course of your railroad? . Reading back through your posts, I found it hard to determine if you are planning to use real towns/locations or not. . Please clarify if you could. . -Kevin .
ncandstl576 In cases where a route is completely fictitious, is it a good idea to use modern day highway and interstate routes to help with plotting the course of your railroad?
Reading back through your posts, I found it hard to determine if you are planning to use real towns/locations or not.
Please clarify if you could.
ncandstl576In cases where a route is completely fictitious, is it a good idea to use modern day highway and interstate routes to help with plotting the course of your railroad?
NittanyLionTake Pennsylvania for example. The Turnpike and I-80 are the main east west highways across the state (US 22 and 30 the secondary). The rail lines cut very different paths across the state, with 30 being the closest to the old PRR and 22 not too far off the B&O. But even those aren't the same towns
Ironically the PA turnpike uses some of the old grade of the South Penn RR. Two of the tunnels were originally bored for the railroad.
Follow rivers. Highways have too steep of grades.
jeffhergertIn Iowa at least, many of the original cross country road routes followed the major cross state rail routes.
True in much of the west, as well. The railroads often chose routes because of the favorable geography -- and the highways followed suit. Not to mention that many of the towns had grown up along the rail routes and were then joined by the highways later.
If a highway is there now, likely a railroad could have been earlier -- if there was economic justification.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
mbinsewi NittanyLion I wouldn't. The topographic, economic, political, and practical reasons why a modern highway is where it is versus where rail lines are tended to be very different. Well put. I agree. Most likely, the railroad was there first, it's civil engineers deciding the best route to get from city to city. Look at old railroad maps, before a lot of roads were built. The railroad was the road from town to town. Mike.
NittanyLion I wouldn't. The topographic, economic, political, and practical reasons why a modern highway is where it is versus where rail lines are tended to be very different.
Well put. I agree.
Most likely, the railroad was there first, it's civil engineers deciding the best route to get from city to city.
Look at old railroad maps, before a lot of roads were built. The railroad was the road from town to town.
In Iowa at least, many of the original cross country road routes followed the major cross state rail routes. From North to South: US18 the MILW, US20 the IC, US30 the CNW, US6 the RI, US34 the CBQ. So those rail routes are already taken. As highways and vehicles have improved, many of those routes are way off their original ROW. Like interstates, they have been straightened out. I's not as important for highways to actually go through a town anymore.
Many times the railroad was the original road between those small towns because those towns were established with the coming of the railroad. Many named after someone connected with the original railroad that built the line.
Jeff
NittanyLionI wouldn't. The topographic, economic, political, and practical reasons why a modern highway is where it is versus where rail lines are tended to be very different.
In cases where a route is completely fictitious, is it a good idea to use modern day highway and interstate routes to help with plotting the course of your railroad?
I never did researching highways or interstate into my railroads. I always saw old videos and pictures of railroads and try to copy that aspect.
Later on I design my own railway based on actual tracks and buildings alrighty placed.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
I wouldn't. The topographic, economic, political, and practical reasons why a modern highway is where it is versus where rail lines are tended to be very different. Take Pennsylvania for example. The Turnpike and I-80 are the main east west highways across the state (US 22 and 30 the secondary). The rail lines cut very different paths across the state, with 30 being the closest to the old PRR and 22 not too far off the B&O. But even those aren't the same towns.
When I was considering a coal hauler - the Richmond & Ohio - it started off at the port of Norfolk, swung north to Richmond, and paralleled I-64 to Staunton. From here, I could swing north to meet the Western Maryland at Durbin or Webster Springs, or provide a more direct route to Charleston via Marlinton-Richwood-Summersville-Deepwater.
I have a several proto-freelance railroads. One that stands out is the Georgia, North Carolina, and Ohio Railway that runs on Norfolk and Western and Southern Ry trackage rights. Including Norfolk Southern as well. It's a Class 2 railroad with over 1,000 miles traveling north to south in Atlanta, GA- Charlotte, NC- Bluefield, WV- Columbus, OH.
Locomotives in eras of modeling
?- 1938-1946
179 diesels w/o b units: 1946-1965
293 diesels: 1966-1990
345 diesels: 1990-2007
*estimates on locomotives since majority might be wrecked in service. Some locomotives were retired within these years.*
Freight Cars are a little confusing but still on the math.
Boxcar/reefer/insulted/auto parts- 1000
Hopper/bethgon- 300-500
Flatcars- 100
Covered Hoppers/ 2-3 bay - 450
Tank cars- 25
Gondolas- 300
Caboose- 150
On my layout it will be at least 6 boxcars and covered hoppers, 2 to 4 gondolas, 16 hoppers, 1 or 2 flatcars.
I hope this helps your fictional railroad situation.
Doughless If you're going to model the ESTL to Eville line of the L&N as if it was taken over by the NCandSTL, why not just research what L&N locos tended to run on that line and say the new railroad acquired the locos too. You can simply patch the locos with the NC&STL emblem and paint over the L&N logo. L&N tends to be a fairly common road name for model locos, at least more so than NC & STL. If you can't find a model of a particular L&N loco, then say that loco was pulled from service (the L& N slipped you a junker) and replace it with a suitable NC&STL loco. It sounds like it will be easier and maybe more fun to just research what actually ran on the L&N than it will be for you to come up with a suitable back story that's independent of reality. Including a previous discussion, I think that East/West L&N line from Eville to STL may have had its main interchange with the C&EI at Mt Vernon IN and not so much at Eville.
If you're going to model the ESTL to Eville line of the L&N as if it was taken over by the NCandSTL, why not just research what L&N locos tended to run on that line and say the new railroad acquired the locos too. You can simply patch the locos with the NC&STL emblem and paint over the L&N logo. L&N tends to be a fairly common road name for model locos, at least more so than NC & STL. If you can't find a model of a particular L&N loco, then say that loco was pulled from service (the L& N slipped you a junker) and replace it with a suitable NC&STL loco.
It sounds like it will be easier and maybe more fun to just research what actually ran on the L&N than it will be for you to come up with a suitable back story that's independent of reality.
Including a previous discussion, I think that East/West L&N line from Eville to STL may have had its main interchange with the C&EI at Mt Vernon IN and not so much at Eville.
Thanks for the info on the C&EI, IUIC the MoPac was in Mt. Vernon as well.
This entire discussion should not lose sight of one fact--it is MODEL railroading. A model is a reasonable facsimile of a real object. Whether it is painted Santa Fe or Wobble, Bobble and Stop, compromises have been made to miniaturize it.
Our locomotives run on electricity from a wall outlet, not diesel fuel from their tiny "fuel tanks". Our freight cars haul mostly air, not corn, scrap steel or sulphuric acid. Passenger cars are populated with styrene figurines, not little flesh and blood customers. Think about this. In HO, 12 actual inches equals 87 HO feet. A prototype passing siding stretches one and a half to two miles in length. On our HO railroads we would need 90 to 120 feet of real space to accurately model ONE passing track. Never mind towns, industries, yards etc. The answer is compromise, selective compression and omission. How realistic is that? Our little ten or 12 foot "passing" tracks all of a sudden become acceptable as "realistic".
My point is we start out in this hobby accepting the fact that compromises are what makes it all possible. The OP knows going in that he will NEVER be able to accurately model every town along the line he is interested in. If he models anything at all, it will be important to accomplishing a reasonable representation of what drew him to the NC&StL in the first place.
I too, chase realism--in those things important to fulfilling my visions of miniaturization. I accept the compromises I cannot ignore and pursue those things that are achieveable. Long ago I realized I could never fully model Dime Box, Texas in its entirety and am quite happy with what I do have, no matter what I call it. It is still all about having fun, isn't it?
I like that term "protolancing". For the "proto" part of my new layout, I'm setting it in the early '50s and as a real railroad, the Erie, in a real city, Paterson, NJ. I knew them both well way back. The "lancing" part is the location of a fictional Erie transfer yard between the Erie and the DL&W. That's located in a real open area at the end of Mill Street in Paterson and will have a fictional freight connection with the former DL&W's Boonton Branch. I'm also including industries that are reminiscent of the city, such as one of the textile mills that made the city known as the "Silk City" because of the many mills there. So, it will have the (new abstract term here) "flavor" of both the Erie and of the city.
Russ
Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ. Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/
I use the term "protolancing" to describe my layouts - at least the last two. The first one was abandoned due my parents moving into town and off the ranch. The new one is composed of what was to have been an expansion and one section that was saved from that old layout.
The idea behind it is after BN merger they decided to discontinue operating to old NP lines. That led to the creation of a Class II short line similar to the MRL. (My avatar is the logo for that railroad.) As for the locos, what would need to be done is for them to be consistent in manufacturer to make it easier on the shop people to maintain them. (I have eight GP20s - two in passenger livery, an SW1000 which was purchased new, an ex-NP GP7 and an F7 also for passenger service, and couple of SW7s all in forms of my road's scheme. All EMD.)
dehusmanbut it is so vaguely defined that it pretty much could include everything between 100% prototype and 100% fantasy,
The STRATTON AND GILLETTE is 100% nonsense (fantasy), and I would become deeply offended if anyone used the prefix "proto" to describe anything on it!