Ok so my club is considering adding a piggyback train to its list of manifests, and I've always liked articulated spine cars, so my question is how many units did these things come in I know the usual variety is 3 or 5 but I read that SF had 10, I also read that even bodied cars naturally have an odd truck count which can make early detector equipment confused.
Would a good arrangement be, A end car, C car, C car, C car, B end car, drawbar (I know some "intermodal" equipment recieved drawbars), A end car, C car, C car, C car, B end car.
That would give a ten car unit (like the fuel foiler) but have an even number of trucks.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
NWP SWPmy club is considering adding a piggyback train to its list of manifestos
.
Manifesto is not the correct word. I seriously hope you club does not have a manifesto, or if they do, they should choose a less harsh term for it.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Whoops that's a typo, I meant manifest but my phone added a O. Alright I fixed it.
Steven,
I have never heard of problems with detectors and the number of trucks. A detector counts axles. Even an odd number of spines will result in an even number of axles.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/218434/2410473.aspx
i have a set of spline [or spine] cars here , different front and back units, same units in the middle ...
need to think, but i belive there are nine total ... maybe the set is twenty years [or a bit more] in age now .. they are mostly white in colour ..
Are they ATSF rep marks and have a yellow box that has "10-pack Fuel Foiler" in black?
If so you're one car short of the "ten-pack" "fuel foiler" consist.
I'll try to find a picture of the real thing.
(Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on this topic, but I'm sharing what I've learned so far.)
jrbernier Steven, I have never heard of problems with detectors and the number of trucks. A detector counts axles. Even an odd number of spines will result in an even number of axles.
Not always true. For some reason unknown to me, the NS detector where we railfan will often give an uneven number of axles. So when you do the math, you end up for example with 86.5 cars. I've not paid a lot of attention to what type of train (unit, manifest, etc) but believe it has happened on all types.
Tom
Pittsburgh, PA
NWP SWP Are they ATSF rep marks and have a yellow box that has "10-pack Fuel Foiler" in black? If so you're one car short of the "ten-pack" "fuel foiler" consist. I'll try to find a picture of the real thing. (Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on this topic, but I'm sharing what I've learned so far.)
The Santa Fe Fuel Foilers were the original spine cars. They were ten units each and ran in a train with ten groups for a total of one hundred trailers. They were assigned to hotshot trains which ran nonstop from Los Angeles to Chicago. Eventually the design was changed to a lower number of units when they started running spine cars to other destinations because using a ten unit car loaded with only five or six trainers was a waste and negated the whole idea of being fuel efficient. Nowadays you can see them mixed into intermodal trains with flatbeds and well cars. The model makers seem to have settled on five units per car. Your club should probably just go with that. By the way the end cars are numbered A and B for the end units with B being the brake end. The middle units are C,D, and E, with the C unit being next to the B unit and the other units following in alphabetical order.
NWP SWP Ok so my club is considering adding a piggyback train to its list of manifests, and I've always liked articulated spine cars, so my question is how many units did these things come in I know the usual variety is 3 or 5 but I read that SF had 10, I also read that even bodied cars naturally have an odd truck count which can make early detector equipment confused. Would a good arrangement be, A end car, C car, C car, C car, B end car, drawbar (I know some "intermodal" equipment recieved drawbars), A end car, C car, C car, C car, B end car. That would give a ten car unit (like the fuel foiler) but have an even number of trucks.
The AT&SF 10-pack units were sort of the early prototypes.
3 and 5 unit intermodal units (spine or double stack well cars) are standard. Single unit well cars are also common, but spine cars seem to pretty much always be 3 or 5 unit sets. (Other than those experimental "FrontRunner" or "4Runner" single unit spine cars which didn't really last all that long.)
Sets can either be articulated (adjacent unit bodies sharing a truck) or drawbarred (individual units permanently coupled as a set). Note that drawbars are used **within** a set - you don't have two articulated sets drawbarred together.
Within a set, the entire set is considered a "car" with all the same number. Each sub-unit is individually identified with a letter. The middle units are not all "C" units, each unit has a unique number - B-C-A for a three-pack, B-C-D-E-A for a five-pack.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
NWP SWP Are they ATSF rep marks and have a yellow box that has "10-pack Fuel Foiler" in black?
no, they came each in seperate white boxes, marked front range ..
didn't dig them up to take photo though ... ho scale ..
The box is painted on the "spine" of the car, not the actual box.
Those 10 pack fuel foiler cars fell out of favor fast......You could only load trailers on them. The newer designed spine cars are more versatile in that You could drop the hitch pull up pedestals on the car and load a container on them....even all containers so there were no empty cars......plus they were too long for some yards out east.
Athearn came out with a fuel foiler kit yrs. ago......I never used them, but built them. They were way too light and no where to add weight unless you used a weighted trailer all the time......
Take Care!
Frank
I recall someone saying the ATSF white Fuel Foiler 10-pack sets were limited to Santa Fe rails but this is the misinformation highway after all so not sure if that was true or not.
Back in 1985 I was driving from Bakersfield CA to Dallas TX and remember Interstate 10 paralleling a Santa Fe yard and was impressed by this long string of white spine cars - the only time I remember seeing them in real life. Shame I didn't get some photo's of them.
As I recall, Santa Fe sold their design to Itel, who did their Impack version of the Fuel Foiler and a number of railroads used it in various configurations such as 4 units, 5 units etc. There were some good articles in Rail Model Journal in the late 1990's IIRC with photo's and details on them. I believe Cotton Belt (SSW) rostered them and Trailer Train as well.
I have read that some of the Impack spine cars were modified in the early 1990's to allow them to carry containers, but by far newer designs have become the norm, which are manufacture to carry longer trailer and containers both.
The D&RGW ran piggy pack trains in the mid-late 1990's and the Trailer Train 5 unit Impack spine cars were among the consists, along with Front Runner spine cars, but mostly conventional 89' piggy back flat cars were used.
Concor made a kit which was not terribly well engineered. Athearn has done a blue box kit version which was much better and you can still find them at train shows and on Ebay.
The Athearn spine is basically the Fuel Foiler/Impack type which are similar design. They do have a weight that fits in the spine and as far as I know, they track just fine.
Of course replacing the plastic wheels with metal wheels will add some weight and a weight in the bottom of trailers mounted on them is a good idea. I believe you would want the 28" Intermountain wheels for the Athearn cars. The Athearn blue box spine cars come in an "end unit" set with both ends, and a "middle unit" set with 3 middle units. I treasure hunted enough sets to do three 5-unit spine car sets before I back dated to 77-83 time frame, but may do a few one off trains so will get them ready to run eventually.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 Rio Grande. The Action Road Silly Aspie's, I have NT syndrome
Rio Grande. The Action Road
Silly Aspie's, I have NT syndrome
You must see yourself as a comedian, don't you?
I can take a joke though.
IMPACK is a brand name, spine car is a generic term. Technically, all of the IMPACK cars are spine cars, but that is not true in reverse. Some history of the spine car... In 1978, ATSF designed and built the 10-unit Fuel Foiler, which was designed for 40' & 45' trailers and run strictly on ATSF, as they were not designed for interchange service. In 1981, Itel (FMC Gunderson) bought the design from Santa Fe and dubbed them "Impack" (Inter Modal PACKage). Itel sold the cars in various configurations, 3-, 4-, 5-, 8- and 10-unit configurations. ACF and Thrall also built similar designs. Aside from Trailer Train (reporting marks were UTTX originally, then TTLX on later designs), BN, SP, and SSW bought these cars. Additionally, they were now designed to handle 40', 45' and 48' trailers. The later TTLX design cars were also able to handle 28' pups. [Athearn and ConCor(?) have produced a version of the early car, which handles 40' and 45' trailers, UTTX.] In 1987, the (NTTX) container-only, articulated skeleton car, came along as a five unit set, which is able to handle 20', 40', 45' and 48' containers. The builders of this design included Bethlehem, Trinity and Hyundai. [Alan Curtis produces a brass kit, which is limited in production.]In 1988, the All-Purpose spine car was released with the design to handle 48' trailers/containers, carrying TTAX reporting marks. The end two platforms can carry two 20' containers. Bethlehem, Gunderson, Trinity and Thrall were the builders of choice. [Walthers released this car as a kit and then RTR, but is currently out of production.] In 1993, the TTAX all-purpose spine was lengthened to 53' and can carry 28' to 53' trailers. On the two end platforms, there is the capability to carry two 20' containers. Prototype builders are the same. [Alan Curtis has a limited run brass kit available.] (Note that AC is getting out of American prototype models and it is my understanding that someone else is taking over at least the N scale line in the near future. AC might be producing one last HO scale car. Production was scheduled to include the TR / TTRX 3-unit 6x28' / 3x57' spine car. Not sure if this is still the case.) There have been a fair number of the 48' TTAX cars that have been stretched into 53' TTAX AP spine cars. Additionally, TTX has recently purchased 3-unit 53' AP spine cars, rolling with the TTAX reporting marks. You can find TTLX cars still around.
45 yrs. In the Transportation Industry. 25 common carrier, 20 Intermodal, 5 of which were spent as an Intermodal crane operator for CSX Intermodal, Bedford Park,Il.
I have some of the Athearn Impact kits. They run ok but are pretty light so I always put them on the rear of the train. I also have several of the Walthers All Purpose Spine car kits which are better because they are metal and weigh more. I put them in the front.
zstripe IMPACK is a brand name, spine car is a generic term. Technically, all of the IMPACK cars are spine cars, but that is not true in reverse.
IMPACK is a brand name, spine car is a generic term. Technically, all of the IMPACK cars are spine cars, but that is not true in reverse.
Aye captain. Tis true!Some history of the spine car... In 1978, ATSF designed and built the 10-unit Fuel Foiler, which was designed for 40' & 45' trailers and run strictly on ATSF, as they were not designed for interchange service.
In 1978, ATSF designed and built the 10-unit Fuel Foiler, which was designed for 40' & 45' trailers and run strictly on ATSF, as they were not designed for interchange service.
Ah, so what I read reas apparently true.
Athearn and ConCor(?) have produced a version of the early car, which handles 40' and 45' trailers Take Care! Frank
Sounds correct.
The rest will be of interest to people who model the period after the Impack cars.
NWP SWP riogrande5761 Rio Grande. The Action Road Silly Aspie's, I have NT syndrome You must see yourself as a comedian, don't you?
Just blending in Steven. There seem to be plenty here on this forum if you read their siggies. What is the old saying: if you can't beat them, join them!
Here is a siggy I copy/pasted from another forum you might enjoy:
The Fake Model Railroader, subpar at best. Providing no usable information or value to this or any conversation. Can not spell, has limited writing skills and failed reading comprehension. Most post contain a great deal of snark, A true indication off no education and well below average intelligence.
wvg_ca NWP SWP Are they ATSF rep marks and have a yellow box that has "10-pack Fuel Foiler" in black? no, they came each in seperate white boxes, marked front range .. didn't dig them up to take photo though ... ho scale ..
NWP SWP
I'll have to come back to this subject thread at some point in the future when I can get my freight car inventory out and running. I have a few sets of these piggybacks, and impact cars, spines, etc that a fellowed detailed out and weighted etc,...bought the sets from him at Timonium show.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
maxman no, they came each in seperate white boxes, marked front range .. didn't dig them up to take photo though ... ho scale .. As I recall, Front Range sold two kits. One contained the A and B cars, and the other contained three intermediate cars.
no, they came each in seperate white boxes, marked front range .. didn't dig them up to take photo though ... ho scale ..
they have been packed away for years now, my mdel era is 1890's [or so]
Above from HOSeeker website.
riogrande5761 NWP SWP riogrande5761 Rio Grande. The Action Road Silly Aspie's, I have NT syndrome You must see yourself as a comedian, don't you? Just blending in Steven. There seem to be plenty here on this forum if you read their siggies. What is the old saying: if you can't beat them, join them! Here is a siggy I copy/pasted from another forum you might enjoy: The Fake Model Railroader, subpar at best. Providing no usable information or value to this or any conversation. Can not spell, has limited writing skills and failed reading comprehension. Most post contain a great deal of snark, A true indication off no education and well below average intelligence.
Good one.
I personally enjoy this quote,
"One can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."