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Bachmann crane car and boom tender set lettered for UP accurate project updates

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Bachmann crane car and boom tender set lettered for UP accurate project updates
Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:20 PM

So, as you have hopefully gathered already, I have one of those sets, and I want to know if they have anything close to a prototype. Otherwise, to ebay they go. The boom tender is numbered 12277, and the crane car is numbered 23158. The UP yellow looks a bit cheesy (pardon the pun) so that is already a bad sign. I do want to try this though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpvp5mIXvU either with the bachmann or an AHM model lettered for santa fe that I have too.

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 4:50 PM

From what I could find, it looks like what you have may be a fairly old model - like from the 1980's - 1990's? The animation in the link is pretty cool.

I think the Bachmann crane and tender are sort of 'generic' models; many railroads had similar equipment since many railroads bought from the same crane manufacturers.

I did find one picture from 2005 of a UP crane that's not all that different....

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/128302/

and one video from 2013....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wpplqyZMpE

Stix
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Posted by j. c. on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 1:06 AM

here is a link to a heavy crane in the 90's http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/up/up900310bk.jpg  and from what i can tell most of there mw equipment lettered in the 90***** series.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 7:36 AM

This is one in the Ogden RR museum

Henry

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 8:13 AM

BNSF UP and others modeler
So, as you have hopefully gathered already, I have one of those sets, and I want to know if they have anything close to a prototype. Otherwise, to ebay they go. The boom tender is numbered 12277, and the crane car is numbered 23158. The UP yellow looks a bit cheesy (pardon the pun) so that is already a bad sign. I do want to try this though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpvp5mIXvU either with the bachmann or an AHM model lettered for santa fe that I have too.

The Bachmann model is a steam crane which dates it to pre-1990's generally and pre-1980's for the UP.

It is also VERY different from this crane :  

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/128302/

The Bachman crane is a wrecking crane, that is operated by the mechanical department (NOT the MofW) and primarily used to handle cars and locomotives.  The Railpictures crane is a bridge crane operated by the engineering dept. (the MofW) and is used to handle pile drivers and build bridges and culverts.  It is NOT used to rerail cars.  It doesn't have the capacity or the equipment to facilitate picking up cars.

The boom car for the Bachmann model is a pretty rough fabrication and wouldn't be typical of any boom car on the UP after WW2 (at best).  The UP tended to paint wrecking cranes either aluminum, the chromate green, back or a dark green.  I can't recall any UP wrecker ever being yellow.  Most of the bridge cranes and Burro Cranes (an even smaller MofW crane) were yellow.  CNW wreckers were yellow, so a post merger, ex-CNW wrecker could have been lettered for UP with CNW yellow paint.

Most boom cars were 53'6" flat cars or cut down 60-70 ft baggage car frames with tool boxes on them.  Most did not have a building on them because it made them difficult to use.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 8:24 AM

j. c.
here is a link to a heavy crane in the 90's http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/up/up900310bk.jpg and from what i can tell most of there mw equipment lettered in the 90***** series.

We had one of those (it might have been that one) at N Little Rock, AR.  We took it out to the a siding just south of Little Rock to rerail a derailed car.  The outfit was the wrecker, a boom car, and a crew car that was an old passenger car for the carmen to ride (it also had a section with bunk beds and kitchen area).

We no sooner set up, got the outriggers blocked up, ran cables around the car (a boxcar of paper) and picked it up when the main hydraulic hose burst (oil spraying out the back of the crane).  That put us dead in the water.  We couldn't raise the car, we couldn't lower the car, we couldn't move the crane, we couldn't move the boom.  I had to explain to the Superintendent why we were going to have the main track blocked for about 3 hours more than we planned.  He was not happy.  The foreman had to drive back into Little Rock and have a new hydraulic hose made, replace the busted one, refill the oil and then start it back up.  Not a fun day.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 11:49 AM

So if I repaint it, I can get a more modern and accurate model, right? I found two more pics that are what I am going to repaint this sucker for: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4602300

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4602299

Plus this one already posted: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/up/up900310bk.jpg

Question is, where can I get those colors? I would paint it based on the pictures where the paint isnt faded. Is the roof white or silver? I can't tell.

 

 

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 7:21 PM

Aluminum.  As are the bearing box covers.

The green was a dark green with bluer rather than olive cast.  Something like Tru-Color Reading green or Safety green.  Southern or MKT green seem too yellow.

Technically the Bachmann model is a steam crane and the prototype is a diesel crane.  To make the Bachmann model match you would have to cut off the smoke stake flush with the roof.  Cut a new roof panel from styrene or shim brass and glue it to the roof to cover the hole.  I think there was an exhaust muffler on the back of the cab for the diesel, then there are the air intake, radiator screens on the sides of the cab.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 10:42 PM

I have already cut that off flush, and I have the other details on my radar. Thanks for the paint suggestions. I already have some of them, so I can get started.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, August 03, 2018 9:16 PM

dehusman

 

 
CNW wreckers were yellow, so a post merger, ex-CNW wrecker could have been lettered for UP with CNW yellow paint.

 

All the CNW wreckers I remember seeing were black. Like in this linked picture.

www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=9&pid=1460#top_display_media 

I was fortunate(?) to see them work 3 or 4 derailments in the late 1970s in Iowa.  I think 1978 or 79 was the last time I saw one.  After that date, it seems contract crews (Hulcher) were the norm for clean up in my area.

Jeff  

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, August 04, 2018 8:04 AM

jeffhergert
All the CNW wreckers I remember seeing were black.

I probably should have said "... some are yellow...".  Wreckers may be different colors depending on era and their lineage.  Most UP wreckers were silver, but the one being modeled was green.  Most MP wreckers were black at one time.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Saturday, December 15, 2018 12:57 PM

After getting some nice new exacto blades, I can make more progress. I am painting the aluminum parts now, and the kadees are installed. However, they are way too high. Will have to find a way to lower the pockets.

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:40 PM

Try using an overset Kadee coupler, like #22, they will lower the coupler about 1/2 the height of the head, without having to hack anything apart.

https://kadee.com/htmbord/coupler.htm

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:38 PM

Kadee also makes these:

 

 

 

 

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, December 15, 2018 6:17 PM

If you compare the ends of the basic body of the Athearn crane:

 

 

and the Bachmann:

 

 

you can see that the Athearn end is kind of "filled up", while the Bachmann has a whole lot of emptiness.  You might want to incorporate closing the space up with your coupler mounting.

 

Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, December 15, 2018 9:11 PM

I dunno if this one is Bachmann or perhaps Model Power, but the ends were pretty much closed-in when I got it off the "used" table at the LHS for a couple of bucks.

If I'm not mistaken (or mis-remembering) it represented a diesel-powered crane, which I back-dated to steam to better fit into my late '30s-era layout.  Adding the stack and service platforms for coal and water pretty-much took care of that, and I added a few grabirons, too.

Wayne

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:14 PM

Wayne,

 

That is an interesting crane.  I can't trace its heritage.  There are many "non-fits".

 

Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, December 16, 2018 3:24 AM

Ed, luckily, I have a memory like a steel trap....well-rusted, unfortunately. Whistling

Your observation prompted me to get that crane out, and I suspect I probably saw, when I was making the modifications, the same thing I read just a few moments ago:  "MADE IN AUSTRIA".  There's nothing other than that, but I suspect that it was made by Roco, if not marketed by them, too.

Wayne

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Posted by dehusman on Sunday, December 16, 2018 7:03 AM

All the steam cranes I met that were not in a museum had an ex-steam engine tender with them for fuel and water.  A crane could be at a wreck and operating for days, so they would need fuel and water to last that time.

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, December 16, 2018 9:36 AM

Wayne,

I did not know Roco made something like that.  You did a great job modifying it.  

The Roco raw material is pretty interesting.  It surely doesn't look European, though I suppose they could have placed an order for an American one if they wished.

Here's a CP crane that looks kinda similar, what with the modern windows:

And a nice side shot of the Roco:

 

Ed

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, December 16, 2018 1:01 PM

dehusman
All the steam cranes I met that were not in a museum had an ex-steam engine tender with them for fuel and water. A crane could be at a wreck and operating for days, so they would need fuel and water to last that time.

You're right, Dave, and I hadn't really thought of that.  I put fuel- and water-fill hatches on the crane's roof, but never considered that it might be in use for longer periods of time.
I do have a water car, but it's usually in use of MoW trains....

In the photo above, it's coupled to a weed sprayer...

I suppose that I could fill the bunker with coal (I modelled it open, but empty), but would still need a way to get the coal from there to the roof-top access hatches for fuel and water on the crane.  Perhaps I should have made it an oil burning steam crane.

I also have the Tichy crane, and also modelled it with roof-top fill hatches - they work fine when the crane's at its home base, but not so practical for on-the-job service, I guess....

Looks like my list of projects continues to grow.

Wayne

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, December 16, 2018 2:00 PM

On the rear of this Athearn crane are what appear to be doors--very handy if you're shoveling coal from an adjacent tender.  Or to catch a cooling breeze:

 

The same would appear to be true for the rear of this Bachmann:

 

 

Looking at Wayne's crane, with it's top-loading coal bin, maybe the way to go, instead of modifying the crane, is to modify the tender with some sort of raised  permanent decking so a guy can carry buckets of coal from the tender over to the crane.  I doubt that a steam powered crane used lots and lots of coal.  Most of the time, it was just idle.  Waiting for something to lift.

 

Ed

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Posted by peahrens on Sunday, December 16, 2018 4:28 PM

BigDaddy

This is one in the Ogden RR museum

 

Do you think that paint started out as work train silver or UP gray??  

EDIT: Sorry I posted before reading everything.  I guess is was the "aluminum"?  I have a black Athearn heavy crane built, and a decorated aluminum kit in the queue.  Plus a Tichy smaller crane unpainted kit that will be a UP when done.

 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by OT Dean on Monday, December 17, 2018 12:46 AM

7j43k

On the rear of this Athearn crane are what appear to be doors--very handy if you're shoveling coal from an adjacent tender.  Or to catch a cooling breeze:

 

The same would appear to be true for the rear of this Bachmann:

 

 

Looking at Wayne's crane, with it's top-loading coal bin, maybe the way to go, instead of modifying the crane, is to modify the tender with some sort of raised  permanent decking so a guy can carry buckets of coal from the tender over to the crane.  I doubt that a steam powered crane used lots and lots of coal.  Most of the time, it was just idle.  Waiting for something to lift.

 

Ed

 

I haven't reread my MR bound volumes in several years, since they badly need expert rebinding, but I seem to recall that steam-powered cranes had doors on the back for the firemen to use when there was an auxiliary tender.  The roof hatches serviced interior coal bunkers, but IDK if the bunkers were refilled via locomotive coal chutes--I'd guess they were, as I can't imagine men climbing ladders with any amount of coal!  Can some of you guys with similar libraries confirm or deny?

I converted an HO Tru-scale industrial crane (the kind with the long, lacy boom) into a small wrecking crane, using the George Lenz contest-winning article in MR, way back when.  It, along with a lot of other stuff (OT locos included [sob!] was stolen from a storage locker, back in the early 2000s.  Come to think of it, I had a lot of work train stuff, including a winged snowplow, flanger, bunk car, water tanker...  Good luck with your project!

Deano

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, December 17, 2018 9:59 AM

I do not think steam cranes were supplied by regular locomotive coal chutes:

They generally aimed at the center of the track and wouldn't hit an offset opening

The chute output opening was quite large, perhaps larger than the input opening on the crane

The coal chute did not have a precision delivery control--coal all over the place

 

Actually, guys up on ladders were very likely how the cranes were fuel if they had top hatches for the purpose.  They didn't hold much coal.  They didn't use much coal when they were operating.  And they didn't operate very often.

 

 

It IS interesting to examine the two options for adding coal to a locomotive crane:  from the top or from the back.

 

By the way, the fuel/water tender wasn't always accompanying the crane.  Here's a shot of one set up without one.  It COULD have been disconnected for the operation, to allow more clearance.  Or perhaps it wasn't even there:

 

 

Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, December 17, 2018 12:32 PM

Ed, I'd guess that that Nevada Northern crane could have been the prototype for the Tichy wreck crane.  Their stock model is similarly open, while I've added sliding doors to mine in consideration of Canadian winters.

I checked my Tichy crane, and it appears to have hinges moulded on the right side of its back end, but because I've added a ladder on the left side, can't see if there's a moulded-in line representing the edge which would open.  It would be easy enough to add a line or strip of trim to create one, though.

On the other hand, the rear of the Roco crane is all counterweight, top-to-bottom and side-to-side.
I looked for info on the coal bunker capacity of tank locomotives, for comparative purposes, with no success, but would guess that a large wreck crane would have room for at least one ton of coal (about 35 cubic feet), and that that amount would likely give it a fair amount of working time, as opposed to stand-by time. 
As has been mentioned, though, how the heck do they load that bunker through a roof hatch, even at the crane's home base? 
It seems to me that out on a wreck site, that might be even more of an issue.

Wayne

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, December 17, 2018 2:03 PM

I've just had a look through a book of GN MOW equipment diagrams, looking at cranes.  Since GN burned oil in their steamers in the west and coal in the east, I figured they might mention some coal capacities.

 

The big wreckers rarely showed that information.  The best I could get was for a 250 ton diesel, which carried 150 gallons of fuel.

I did find a 30 ton crane that burned coal.  Capacity was 1000 pounds (water 750 gallons).  Another is a 25 ton crane with 2000 pounds of coal and 500 gallons of water.  

I think it would be a mistake to assume a 250 ton crane would carry 10 times as much coal as a 25 ton crane.  The little ones tended to work much more continuously.  So I would guess a ton of coal would be very typical.

 

Loading a ton of coal in a top-loading crane is actually very easy.  You just lift up a 40 pound bucket 50 times, and you're done.  Ideally, it's done with a guy on the ground and a guy up top.  And a rope.

Since wrecking cranes are rarely called out, it's not that big a deal.

 

That said, if a guy had a steam powered Roco crane, and it had a solid counterweight forming its rear, that guy just might decide to have it be oil fueled from a tender.  Then there's just a hose connection for oil and one for water.

If you look at the lower rear of the crane in the photo, down around the counterweight, you'll see the water hose connection.

 

Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, December 17, 2018 9:01 PM

I have a few spare small tender bodies, but a Vanderbilt style would look good, too.  I'll have to keep that in mind for the Ancaster train show next month.

Wayne

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, December 17, 2018 9:17 PM

7j43k
I did find a 30 ton crane that burned coal. Capacity was 1000 pounds (water 750 gallons). Another is a 25 ton crane with 2000 pounds of coal and 500 gallons of water. I think it would be a mistake to assume a 250 ton crane would carry 10 times as much coal as a 25 ton crane. The little ones tended to work much more continuously. So I would guess a ton of coal would be very typical.

 I've been searching for info on this since you and Wayne started throwing theories around about how much they carried, and how did they reload while "on the job",  I emailed the NN Museum, they have a "historical questions" on their email list.

I'll see if I get a reply.  It sure has captured my interest.

Mike.

 

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