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SD-40s and other delights... Same thread new questions...

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Posted by PRR8259 on Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:40 AM

It was about maintenance costs and fuel consumption, nothing more.  SD45's in general were on their way out by 1980.  4 more cylinders to maintain, crankshaft issues in some units, and the greater fuel consumption made 45 series diesels the first candidates for storage.  Some railroads dealt with the crankshaft issue, and others just had replaced them when they failed.

It's documented in the wonderful books by Joseph Strapac about the SP/Cotton Belt SD45T-2's.  By 1980 SP had a large number of engines out of service awaiting repairs.  In some cases, 45-series locos were rebuilt with 3000 hp-16 cylinder engines and de-rated accordingly.  Outward appearance remained the same as before, but model designations differed.  

Sure, a bunch of 45-series tunnel motors were rebuilt/refurbished and put back in service with the 20-cylinder 3600 hp engines--but that was only a portion of the monster roster that SP owned of these engines.

John

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:23 PM

An interesting thing would've been if EMD created a F45T or had the SD45X been put into production presumably under the title SD55 they make a SD55T and possibly even a F55 (and T variant) I wonder if the F would have had a full length car body or would the body end short of the radiators? That'd be a interesting looking beast, add that to the to be bashed files!Laugh

Something that has confused me a bit, why did the SD40T/SD45T units not have a problem with the DB resistors overheating, they grabbed the same hot air from the top of the tunnel, I know this would only be an issue when moving downgrade.

Imagine building one of these!

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Graduate, living with Aspergers, President of the Republica Pacifica micronation,  President of the NWP-SWP System.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:28 PM

Overmod
One of these survives, reasonably intact, in the back lot of the Museum of Transportation (VMT) in Roanoke. If I recall correctly, its principal issue is a bad turbo. I get a little comfort every time I see it there and know it's safe.

.

I just went through all my pictures of the Virginia Museum of Transportation from when I visited in April. I do not have any pictures of this locomotive.

.

Did I miss part of the museum? Where is this back lot? Do I need to go back?

.

-Kevin

.

Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:49 PM

Is the SD40-2 by far the best locomotive ever created compared to the ACe's/GEVOs currently out there?

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Posted by NHTX on Wednesday, May 30, 2018 6:41 PM

     A possible reason DB grids are not affected by heat as radiators are is, a locomotive traveling downgrade is in a much lower throttle setting than one climbing the grade at maximum power.  Lower throttle setting=less fuel burned=less heat output=less effect on DB.  Also, the sole purpose of the grids is to take the electricity generated by the traction motors and "waste" it as heat and, in most cases, a train descending a grade does so at higher speed than a train climbing the grade, so the time spent in tunnels is shorter.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Wednesday, May 30, 2018 7:45 PM

As a train lover I'd prefer watching spartan cab units, they are just more interesting to me. I know Montana Rail Link had a lot of older SDs I don't know if they still roster them, if they do it'd be worth a trip to go see!

A while ago I saw a picture of an RS3 that had its short hood removed for switcher service, does anyone know if a EMD unit ever met the same fate? Or did any MP15s or the like ever receive Spartan cabs for some reason?

While on the subject of Tunnel Motors and MP15s, how's this guy.

It's a baby Tunnel Motor! A MP15T!Laugh

Steven

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Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:57 AM

ATSFGuy

Is the SD40-2 by far the best locomotive ever created compared to the ACe's/GEVOs currently out there?

 

I know a lot of retired railroaders including engineers and they have nothing but praise for the SD40-2 but,all agreed the GP7/9 and the SD7/9 was the best EMD diesels.

Although you didn't ask I'll add this for free, they held high praise for the GP38/38-2,GP40/40-2 and the SW1500. GEs wasn't their favorite.

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

“Shut one’s eyes tight or open one’s arms wide, either way, one’s a fool.” Flemeth-the witch of the Wilds.
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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, June 02, 2018 10:58 PM

After reading through some threads here on the Kalmbach forums I have found it'd be reasonable to assume that 1 had the SD50 be more successful in general, EMD would have made a T variant, that said Rio Grande supposedly was interested in a Timely variant of the 50s but never followed through, and 2 had the 50s been more successful in general and the SD45X was successful a SD55 might have been produced, and also a T variant of that if the interest was there, is that correct?

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Graduate, living with Aspergers, President of the Republica Pacifica micronation,  President of the NWP-SWP System.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by PRR8259 on Saturday, June 02, 2018 11:35 PM

Steven--

I have to say a flat out NO on any SD-50T variant, ever.

By the mid to late '70's most railroads had figured out that the extra expenses of customized engines suited uniquely to "their" specific railroad were not economically justifiable to accounting department.  Other than the occasional test bed engines, of which there will always be a few, in the years since the trend has been toward more or less standardized power that can go anywhere and do just about any job: more units at lesser horsepower = "building blocks" that can be readily assembled, when needed, into a more powerful consist.  By the mid-1980's, the monster UP double diesels were out to pasture and SP had given up on spending top dollar for more tunnel motors.  By 1980, SP was in a full on economic crisis.  The tunnel motors had always cost more, which was fine when SP had money.  Joe Strapac makes that point crystal clear in his multiple books on the subject.  More tunnel motors of any kind was an expense SP was not going to afford.

We were in a fuel crisis.  The U.S. government ordered the automakers to limit automotive maximum speeds to 85 mph for fuel efficiency reasons.  That is why even the high performance cars of the period only have an 85 or 86 mph speedometer.  (I had a 1979 5 liter mustang, the first model of its generation '79 through '93).

On the railroads, fuel efficiency was in and that's why there were so very many SD40-2's built.

The reason so much of the SP roster looked ragged during the '80's and later was because they were cash poor and could not afford to maintain the engines to the standards they had in earlier days.

John

P.S. The SP Diesels series of perfectbound books provides a lot of valuable information at cheap paperback prices.  They are a quite fascinating read and well worth the modest investment.  I'd give some to you, but already gave them to a local friend.

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Sunday, June 03, 2018 4:03 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
Overmod
One of these survives, reasonably intact, in the back lot of the Museum of Transportation (VMT) in Roanoke. If I recall correctly, its principal issue is a bad turbo. I get a little comfort every time I see it there and know it's safe.

 

.

I just went through all my pictures of the Virginia Museum of Transportation from when I visited in April. I do not have any pictures of this locomotive.

.

Did I miss part of the museum? Where is this back lot? Do I need to go back?

.

-Kevin

.

 

Not sure if you were thinking Overmod was talking about an EL SD45.  The one at the VMT is of NW heritage.  High short hood:

http://www.vmt.org/collections/rail/diesel-locomotives/norfolk-western-emd-sd-45-1776/

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2734681,-79.9497852,3a,15y,97.93h,84.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKqOYDdE3PqcEjd6Ex6p-4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Rule 108: In case of doubt or uncertainty, the safe course must be taken.
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 03, 2018 7:09 PM

No, I forgot to mention the little detail that it became Conrail 6770 before the Dereco lease (which is the "tie" to an EL unit being in VMT) expired in '84, and to my knowledge is still in CR blue.

Of course this has nothing to do with N&W 1776 except I believe a few parts were "borrowed" when 1776 was restored.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, June 04, 2018 7:18 AM

NWP SWP

...  that said Rio Grande supposedly was interested in a Timely variant of the 50s but never followed through, and 2 had the 50s been more successful in general and the SD45X was successful a SD55 might have been produced, and also a T variant of that if the interest was there, is that correct?

I've never read anything to that effect.  I've been following and reading up on the Rio Grande since around 1985 and have a decent library of Rio Grande books at home including Rio Grande diesels Vol 1, 2 and 3.

The only comments about purchases was that D&RGW was planning on buying a sixth order of 20 SD40T-2's in the early 1980's (the previous 5th batch were delivered in 1980) and EMD began cateloging the SD50.  So Rio Grande canceled the order for 20 more SD40T-2's and change it to 17 SD50's.  Those were the last six motor diesels bought by D&RGW.  The only other diesels acquired after the 1984 SD50's were 2nd hand (ex-Conrail) more or less concurrently, and in 1990 (after the purchase of SP/SSW) 3 GP60's.

Now I return you back to earth.  Cowboy

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, June 04, 2018 2:32 PM

Okay I was reading up on Ts and according to Trains magazine was to place an order for GP50Ts, EMD cataloged one such unit, they never ordered and none were built, I think it must have been a bit of telephone on that, GP50T became SD50T.

This is the article I read that in.

http://trn.trains.com/railroads/abcs-of-railroading/2018/01/tunnel-motors-from-the-past

 

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Graduate, living with Aspergers, President of the Republica Pacifica micronation,  President of the NWP-SWP System.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, June 04, 2018 3:32 PM

BRAKIE
I know a lot of retired railroaders including engineers and they have nothing but praise for the SD40-2 but,all agreed the GP7/9 and the SD7/9 was the best EMD diesels

.

I have only known very few actual old railroaders, but they all agree the SD7 or SD9 was the best locomotive they ever operated.

.

-Kevin

.

Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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Posted by garya on Monday, June 04, 2018 8:32 PM

BRAKIE
 
ATSFGuy

Is the SD40-2 by far the best locomotive ever created compared to the ACe's/GEVOs currently out there?

 

 

 

I know a lot of retired railroaders including engineers and they have nothing but praise for the SD40-2 but,all agreed the GP7/9 and the SD7/9 was the best EMD diesels.

Although you didn't ask I'll add this for free, they held high praise for the GP38/38-2,GP40/40-2 and the SW1500. GEs wasn't their favorite.

 

The ones I asked said the best loco was the SD40-2. Next was the SD40.

Gary
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 6:18 AM

SeeYou190
 
BRAKIE
I know a lot of retired railroaders including engineers and they have nothing but praise for the SD40-2 but,all agreed the GP7/9 and the SD7/9 was the best EMD diesels 

I have only known very few actual old railroaders, but they all agree the SD7 or SD9 was the best locomotive they ever operated.

-Kevin

They weren't refered to as Cadillac's for nothing.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

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