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Scratch Bashing the C&EI Freight House at Dearborn Station

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 01, 2017 7:34 AM

Rich,

I believe from that photo that You just posted...that You are missing is the fact that the 1 story roof does not butt up against the two story building. There is another part that slopes down below the windows, like a hip-roof....four sides. Look at the drain for the two story building and also the corner of the window that is covered by the roof.......they just don't cover part of a window when putting on a roof. The camera angle makes it look like it is butted...even makes the top of the first story dock look as tall...but it is not. You got to remember...I've been in that building in the 50's, as well as the one on Canal st. The interior was all wood timber for structual support, with a brick exterior.....concrete floor for dock and first floor and a wood floor for the second story. Almost all warehouses and factories in that area had all timber for support beams....no steel H-columns. I've been in quite a few factories in that whole area.......starting around 1949 when I was seven and riding either with My Dad or Uncle, who at the time drove trucks. Lifschultz and Hennis Freight lines.

I'm not trying to be critical...just informative. Smile, Wink & Grin

Good luck on Your build....doing a fine job!

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

 

 

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, September 01, 2017 9:05 AM

richhotrain

I have begun installing roof supports at the proper pitch angle. I mocked up a short length of unpainted styrene roof to show the proper angle. I hope to cut, paint and install the 1-story pitched roof today but, first, golf is calling me. 

Rich

P1000875.jpg

P1000876.jpg

 

Rich, it looks to me that the first pic shows the third and end peak to be shallower than the other two, and perhaps more accurate, IMO.  Could just be the camera angle.  

I see the other rare photo shows the peak to nearly approach the top of the second story, so maybe the first two are closer to correct than I first thought.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 01, 2017 3:18 PM

Doughless
 

Rich, it looks to me that the first pic shows the third and end peak to be shallower than the other two, and perhaps more accurate, IMO.  Could just be the camera angle.  

Yeah, that's just an optical illusion. I am not very expert at taking photos, so I just point and click. All of the roof supports, five in total, all match one another in size and shape. I probably shouldn't have posted those two mockup photos becuase they were very preliminary and were later modified.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 01, 2017 3:38 PM

zstripe

....the 1 story roof does not butt up against the two story building. There is another part that slopes down below the windows, like a hip-roof....four sides.

That is an interesting observation. The usual photo, taken from the Roosevelt Road overpass, gives the appearance of a continuous pitched roof butting up against the 2-story building.

After I read your comment, I pulled up a 1938 aerial view, and I could see the "hip roof" segment that you are referring to. I enclosed the C&EI Inbound Freight House in a red rectangle and drew black arrow pointing to the hip roof. I never noticed that before.

If you look closely and compare the aerial photo to the first photo in this thread, there are other details on the flat roof of the 2-story structure that are not obvious from the Roosevelt Road view.

Rich

 

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, September 01, 2017 7:14 PM
Gee Frank, while you maybe an old codger, Smile, Wink & Grin  http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/264872.aspx?page=1 there’s nothing wrong with your powers of observation!!! My excuse is that for my sketch, and consequent observation, I’ve used the photo in Richs first post for this thread. Whistling  Now that you pointed out that window it is glaringly obvious. The only windows I’ve personally seen that are partially built over, have been bricked up first.
richhotrain
I probably shouldn't have posted those two mockup photos because they were very preliminary and were later modified.
Just a personal observation Rich, but too often, at least to my mind, we see amazing modelling that can be off putting and seemingly beyond our meagre skills, simply because we don’t see the hiccups, and or trial and error stuff,  that can, and indeed does, occur during the build process.
Keep up the Good Work.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, September 01, 2017 7:39 PM

richhotrain

Here is a rare photo of the west side of the C&EI Freight House which shows the pitch of the 1-story peaked roof.

One thing that I forgot about is that in the earlier photo of my scratch build, that mock up was too pitched and I did lower it when I installed the new roof over the old. As I already mentioned, the only way to match the pitch of the prototype roof would be to match the width of the prototype. 

Rich

 

Ok.  Then the overall height of the roof should be slightly lower than how it was mocked up.   Based on the photo above, if the one story in fact has hipped roof instead of abutting the 2 story, then the top of the hipped portion is closer to us, so the peak of the roof should be lower than the 2 story and not the same height as it would be if the roof abutted the building.  Now that we know there is a hipped roof, its easier to see it in the photo.

The angled roof line also cuts off the bottom of one of the windows, indicating it is closer to us than if it wasn't hipped. 

As noted, the dimensions are going to be bashed for layout purposes, so precise accuracy will have to be sacrified somewhere.

Excellent job.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 02, 2017 4:51 AM

One of the most severe limitations in building this freight house is the lack of actual drawings. The only thing that I know for sure is that the 2-story structure was 288 feet long and 60 feet wide, and the 1-story structure was 474 feet long and 60 feet wide. I wish that I knew the height of the two structures but I don't have that information. 

There were actually four buildings that formed the C&EI Inbound Freight House. In addition to the two buildings that I am modeling, there was a small building on each end of the entire four building complex. Another piece of information that I lack but wished I knew is the order in which the four individual structures were built.

In HO scale, the two buildings that I am modeling would measure 105 inches long by 8.25 inches wide, a bit too large for my purposes. I chose to build a 40 inch long by 6 inch wide set of structures. The 1-story model is 3.25 inches high including the foundation and cornices, and the 2-story model is 5.25 inches high including the foundation and cornices. The peaked roof and end cornices result in additional height.

The Walthers Modulars wall sections are 2 inches high which would convert to 14.5 feet height for each story for the "prototype".

My objective in building the C&EI Inbound Freight House is to simulate a reasonable representation of the structures rather than an exact replica. If the final result captures the "look and feel" of the prototype, I will be extremely pleased.

Rich

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:06 AM

richhotrain
If the final result captures the "look and feel" of the prototype, I will be extremely pleased.

And that is the most important thing. The rest of us could comment / criticise till the cows come home but it doesn’t matter.
Keep up the Good Work.Thumbs Up

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:19 AM

 

 
richhotrain
If the final result captures the "look and feel" of the prototype, I will be extremely pleased.

 

And that is the most important thing. The rest of us could comment / criticise till the cows come home but it doesn’t matter.
Keep up the Good Work.Thumbs Up

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

 

Thanks, JaBear. As you know, this scratch bash project is dedicated to you. Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:42 AM

richhotrain
Thanks, JaBear. As you know, this scratch bash project is dedicated to you.  Rich

HA......My Friend.......Ok ''Buddy'' Richie..Super Angry

LOL, You know I'm just kidding.....I like ''Bear'' too......even though He lives upside down.Smile, Wink & Grin

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:48 AM

Fear not, Frankie, I will dedicate the Lifschultz Fast Freight facility to you.  Big Smile

Richie

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 02, 2017 2:43 PM

Got the peaked roof painted and installed on the 1-story structure. Still need to do some finishing and detailing on the peaked roof.  But, right now, I am working on the tall chimney that will go on the 2-story structure.

Rich

 

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, September 02, 2017 3:41 PM

Rich,

AAAHHHHHH! The roof looks much better......Yes Yes Yes

Continue the march.......Bow

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank   

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 02, 2017 3:53 PM

zstripe

Rich,

AAAHHHHHH! The roof looks much better......Yes Yes Yes

Continue the march.......Bow

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank   

 

 

Frank, you just made my day.  Big Smile

Rich

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Posted by Doughless on Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:12 PM

I think the roof looks perfect.  That freight house is a dead ringer for the one in the first pic.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, September 02, 2017 6:01 PM

Doughless
I think the roof looks perfect.  That freight house is a dead ringer for the one in the first pic.

Geez, the last thing we should be doing, is giving Rich a swelled head, but I have to agree!!

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, September 03, 2017 4:41 AM

Thanks, guys, I appreciate all of your comments.

By the way, and I should have mentioned this sooner, the roofs are cut from 0.080" styrene sheet. I picked that thickness because of the long expanse of the roofs.

I couldn't resist temporarily placing the freight house on the layout last evening. The space is by no means ready yet, since I only recently relocated the industry that I had there. But, here is a preliminary photo of the freight house on the layout. Obviously, I still have work to do. The camera doesn't lie, and I see some "repairs" that need to be made to the freight house.

That's the Santa Fe Super Chief in the foreground making its way into Dearborn Station after the long trip from L.A.

Rich

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, September 03, 2017 11:22 AM

Lookin' good, Rich!  Thumbs UpThumbs Up

Wayne

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, September 03, 2017 12:10 PM

doctorwayne

Lookin' good, Rich!  Thumbs UpThumbs Up

Wayne

 

Thanks, Wayne, I appreciate it. I am trying to work my way up to your level, but that will take some doing.  I have incorporated several of your construction ideas in this model.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, September 03, 2017 12:47 PM

I hate cameras. They are like children. Just as children should be seen but not heard, photos should be taken but not seen.

As I reviewed the photos of the project so far, I noticed that the cornice of the 1-story structure that joined to the 2-story structure was out of line. Either no one else noticed that or was too kind to comment. 

Anyhow, I had to do some surgery to fix the problem. Seems that when I installed the new roof over the old roof, I knocked the cornice out of line, mainly because the end roof support was not cleanly cut. As you can see from the photo, I knocked out a window and freight door while making the repairs.  I will re-install those two items later today.

Rich

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 04, 2017 4:22 PM

Not much progress today, but I did talk the brick masons into putting up the chimney on the 2-story..................on Labor Day, no less.

Still got work to do on the freight house and the layout. All of this is inspiring me to get on with my Dream Layout which would more closely replicate Dearborn station, its structures and its track work.

Rich

 

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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, September 04, 2017 5:00 PM

Rich,

WOW, now that is nice!  Having come of age in Chicago, and being a certified ATSF enthusiast, I really appreciate what you have done. 

I understand your wanting to build that "dream layout" for this section, but know that what you already have is very impressive!   Great work!!!

Super nice job!

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 04, 2017 5:05 PM

Thanks, mobilman.

I recall from your prior posts that you grew up in Chicago.

Do you recall Dearborn Station from your youth?

Rich

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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, September 04, 2017 5:28 PM

Hi,

Working with my Dad for two summers we drove through the general area twice a day.  I never really got into Dearborn, but sure appreciated it for being the Santa Fe station.  As a teen I was disappointed that they had to share the station with other railroads, but of course I grew to understand it was a necessity.

As an aside, gotta say you have the background down pat, and I think I see the famous LEE building ad!

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 04, 2017 5:47 PM

mobilman44

Hi,

As an aside, gotta say you have the background down pat, and I think I see the famous LEE building ad! 

Good eye! You have to look closely to see the Lee Jeans ad on the building on that backdrop.

I have gone through several iterations on the backdrop, first using Walthers backdrops, then adding modular building fronts, then installing a 6' wide photo backdrop (the current one).

I have now made some 4-sided buildings that faced Dearborn Station including the building with the Lee Jeans ad, but I have yet to place the buildings on the layout until I create more space.

Those 4-sided buildings will be placed in front of the backdrop to provide a more realistic and prototypically sized setting for Dearborn Station.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 11, 2017 5:37 AM

I must confess that I accomplished very little on the freight house in the past week.

I have to add some roof vents which is no big deal, but I am also researching interior lighting options.

I will be back as I finish work on the freight house.

Thanks for checking out this thread.

Rich

Alton Junction

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