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Implications Of Moving Abandoned Locomotives And Rolling Stock

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 20, 2017 5:31 PM

At the risk of straying off topic, and I stress that this is strictly theoretical, I live a mere 22 miles from Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago.

What would it cost to move the main building to an open field near my house?

I know for a fact that this can be done.

https://www.wolfehousebuildingmovers.com/

I welcome your comments.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Monday, March 20, 2017 5:34 PM

cascadenorthernrr

By the by, my family is planning to go to NYC to see Billy Joel live at MSG so we would probably go to see my aunt and go to see the loco in person.

 

Dont forget to visit the museum!

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, March 20, 2017 5:37 PM

Rich, get your own thread!!! Just kidding, just kidding. That would be either a equal or greater undertaking than the T-Motor noble just the same.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, March 20, 2017 5:38 PM

Yes of course I would visit it.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Monday, March 20, 2017 5:42 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Yes of course I would visit it.

 

Also as to visiting the locomotives, the powerplant would likely take a dim view of tresspassers on their property (no the locomotives are not on powerplant property), but you may have to cross it to get there.  At least its not a nuclear plant (they take a really dim view of tresspassers). 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, March 20, 2017 5:48 PM

I would get permission from the correct autorities first before going to the locos.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by NHTX on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:41 PM

    One more consideration with these old electrics is hazardous materials such as PCBs in the transformers and asbestos.  Local laws may preclude moving the locomotive until these issues are addressed.  If its an interstate move, every jurisdiction on the route of travel must be satisfied the movement meets their requirements for ensuring public safety.  That is probably why these motors are still sitting there rusting away which is a darn shame.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:58 PM

So step one would be see if the owner would consider selling, two find out what needs to be abated, three find a company to do the lifting, four find a form of transportation (rail, barge, truck), five find a shop to do the restoration work, six get final destination to be suitable and accessible by rail, seven figure out financial budget, eight begin the process of buying.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:06 PM

NHTX

    One more consideration with these old electrics is hazardous materials such as PCBs in the transformers and asbestos.  Local laws may preclude moving the locomotive until these issues are addressed.  If its an interstate move, every jurisdiction on the route of travel must be satisfied the movement meets their requirements for ensuring public safety.  That is probably why these motors are still sitting there rusting away which is a darn shame. 

Its a multi million dollar event in any case.  It will take years and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, to get the locomotives in a suitable condition to move on a class 1 railroad (assuming that they can be made road worthy at all).

It will take years of preparations with the railroads (and once again hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not a million) to actually move it 1200 miles. 

Trucking it would save all the roadworthy expenses but would once again take years of preparation since it would require special high capacity trucks and clearances in all the states it will pass through, plus a route that can accept it over 1200 miles.

Generally railroads are extremely resistant to moving this type of equipment long distances.  They are a HUGE risk of something going wrong and in most cases if it goes wrong there are no spare parts to fix it.  That's why they charge so much.

Dave H. Painted side goes up.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:13 PM

Ok so barge would be optimal, right? Its right there by the Hudson and I live near the Mississippi so the tough part would be getting it from BR to Ethel.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:23 PM

Person Facepalming on Apple iOS 10.2

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:59 PM

cascadenorthernrr

So step one would be see if the owner would consider selling, two find out what needs to be abated, three find a company to do the lifting, four find a form of transportation (rail, barge, truck), five find a shop to do the restoration work, six get final destination to be suitable and accessible by rail, seven figure out financial budget, eight begin the process of buying.

 

Step ___  Document the as found condition of the locomotives including photographs and measurements of as installed equipment. 

Step 2.1 Obtain the necessary permits from the local governments to do the abatement work.

Step 2.2 Hire contractor to do abatement and dispose of the hazardous material.

(you will not likely turn a wheel until this is done)

Step 7 is actually step 1.  Step 2, 3, 4, 5 will not even talk to you beyond maybe a quote, which you will likely have to pay for, without the money or financial plan to raise the money.

Rule 108: In case of doubt or uncertainty, the safe course must be taken.
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Posted by NittanyLion on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:08 PM

It cost Houston $600,000 to barge a full size mock-up space shuttle from Cape Canaveral to Houston.  That weighed 62 tons, compared to the 100+ tons your T motor weighs, so they'd require similiar barges.

Based on that mileage and cost, you're already around $1.6 million just to move a dang barge.

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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:34 PM

BMMECNYC
Step ___ Document the as found condition of the locomotives including photographs and measurements of as installed equipment. Step 2.1 Obtain the necessary permits from the local governments to do the abatement work. Step 2.2 Hire contractor to do abatement and dispose of the hazardous material. (you will not likely turn a wheel until this is done) Step 7 is actually step 1. Step 2, 3, 4, 5 will not even talk to you beyond maybe a quote, which you will likely have to pay for, without the money or financial plan to raise the money.

Actually work backwards. 

1.  Do you have aplace to put it where you live?

2.  Figure out if you can get it from where it is to where you want it to go and what that will take. 

3.  Figure out what it needs to get it ready for whatever transportation mode you want (no point spending a million bucks on reburbishing the running gear and brake system if you are trucking or barging it).

4.  Start the refurbishment.

5.  Finalize the transportation plan.

6.  Move it.

Of course all this discussion is just an amusing exercise.  If your parents aren't supportive of you having a layout, I doubt they will cough up several million dollars to move the engines, plus I rather doubt that NYC fans will support you moving a NYC engine for the Northeast to Louisiana.

Dave H. Painted side goes up.

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:44 PM

dehusman
plus I rather doubt that NYC fans will support you moving a NYC engine for the Northeast to Louisiana.

Also yes

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:45 PM

So one would rather it rust out in the woods than be restored??? And I must point out I was born in New York so I'm a yankee too!!!

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:56 PM

maxman

Person Facepalming on Apple iOS 10.2

Yep...

http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:19 PM

You mean "yup" as in yes I would rather it rust away than be restored?

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:29 PM

Your stated plan was to gut it and turn it into a living space.  Thats not a restoration.

 So that you can take it to Louisiana and let it rust away there?  Unless you are obscenely rich, no they will likely not sell it to you.  Whoever "they" are, meaning the owners. 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:35 PM

I said renovate and it's better it gets a new life than turn into a pile of rusted metal. And anyway on can dream!!!

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:49 PM

BMMECNYC
Whoever "they" are, meaning the owners

Which I now intend to find out.  Thank you for bringing this to my attention.  Until your post I was unaware of the existance of these two pieces.  I have contacted the NRHS to inquire.  Also joined the NRHS.  <---See you did some good.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:10 PM

BMMECNYC, does that mean you are going to try to buy them?

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:21 PM

cascadenorthernrr

BMMECNYC, does that mean you are going to try to buy them?

 

  I am not going to buy them, I will however volunteer some of my spare time and money towards getting the ball rolling on preservation, once I determine who the actual owner is.  All that I have been able to find is that sometime in the 1980s the owner was one of the chapters of the NRHS.  They dont have a website (the NRHS link is to the NRHS Alco photo service).  

I have contacted the NRHS as to the current owner and status.  At some point they were located within the fenceline of the powerplant.  More recently they were moved outside the powerplant's property at the request of the powerplant.   There are other pieces of the same collection further down the tracks in the woods.  From what I can tell from internet forums (not exactly the most reliable source of information), the land is private property.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:26 PM

Sorry my mistake. I edited my post to have your username instead.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:31 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Sorry my mistake. I edited my post to have your username instead.

 

No worries. 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:56 PM

If anyone wants to check out the Trains Forum sister thread to this one it's under Steam & Preservation.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 9:25 PM

BMMECNYC
Also getting a crane in there will be difficult, as the locomotives are located just north of some of the transmission lines leaving the power plant.

They used four side booms to load the 1306 onto flat cars.At any rate the locomotive would be loaded in pieces just like the 1306.

Then there's a lot of unanswered questions that must be satisfactory answered including would the railroads involve be willing to tie up their main with a special move.

The cost would be in the millions by the time everything is added up. I suspect that's why that equipment hasn't been relocated.

Larry

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 10:13 PM

Thats why I'm that much more determined to save it! In the words of President John F. Kennedy "We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard!"

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by BMMECNYC on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 4:09 PM

The locomotives at Glenmont, NY are not abandoned, Ive found the owners.  Cost of moving the collection is upwards of $1,000,000 for just moving 100mi or so.  That should give you an idea what they are up against.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 4:22 PM

That's the entire collection though. Who is the owner, by the way? And when I looked at the area in 3D mode it appears there are some passenger cars there too.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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