I am (still) planning my retirement railroad which will most likely be a ficticious freelanced line in Maine, featuring a waterfront and related industry and scenic opportunities. There will be an interchange with a "real" railroad somewhere, perhaps MEC. Although freelanced, I'd like it to at least be credible, so a lot of research, not made easier by me being in old England rather than New England! Hurrah for the internet, eh?
I shall invent a logo and appropriate marks for my line, and brand a few cars with those, but that is very limiting.
What I would like to know, from a rolling stock point of view, is what sort of traffic would you have seen through Maine in those days that would carry other railroad's marks? For example, I'd rather doubt there'd be much tankerage from Texas, or coal hoppers on the move through there, but when I am looking to buy rolling stock, what should I be looking for?
When I look at lists of cars for sale, and see the many road names they carry, it would be good to get an understanding of how far goods and materials travelled in those days so that I don't put something completely implausible on the layout.
Any pointers will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
Well, unless you lived out in the country and burned wood, 100 years ago most everyone burned coal for fuel, as did power plants for electricity, and so did railroad steam engines. AFAIK Maine didn't have coal reserves to call upon, so I would imagine you would see quite a few cars filled with coal on Maine trains. Most likely the coal would come from Pennsylvania, West Virginia, perhaps Kentucky...so carried in cars of the Pennsy, B&O, C&O, New York Central and maybe a few others. It might not be anything like the "unit trains" of the 1960's and later, but each town would have at least one coal dealer, plus your railroad will need coal for the steam engines.
If you didn't burn coal for heat, you burned oil, so tank cars with oil / petroleum products would be common. Remember, no interstate highways, so gasoline would be delivered in tank cars to distributors, besides tank cars of oil going to distributors of fuel oil for homes, industries etc. (Of course, some larger industries would get tank car loads of oil directly.)
As far as which railroad's cars you'd see, think of it like a bullseye target. Most likely the most common (the center of the target) would be cars that your railroad connected with directly. As you move to the next circle of the target, you'd see cars from other railroads in that region, then as you get farther out on the targe, some cars from the country in general.
So, for Maine, I'd expect a lot of B&M, B&A / NYC, and MEC cars, along with some CP and CN cars. Then maybe cars from Pennsy, C&O, B&O, Reading, CNJ, and other railroads in the northeast. Then a few cars from various roads - ATSF, UP, Southern, SP, CB&Q, GN, NP etc.
Hey! Thanks for that. That certainly gives me a lot of scope - much more than I had anticipated. I expect, too, that boxcars from any of those roads would be common too. So I shouldn't have too much trouble sourcing sufficient cars. I don't expect I'll need many (by some people's standards, at least!), so providing I ensure that the cars I buy are of the right period, I should be good to go.
Much appreciated assistance
In the 20s the trucking industry was still in its infancy and was well suited for short haul freight.
Railroads was still the transcontinental transportation system.
Examples:
Furniture made in the South as well as lumber and feeds-IC,L&N,Southern etc.
Oranges and manufacture goods from Florida SAL,ACL,FEC.
Manufacture goods and food stuff from the Midwest B&O,C&O,PRR,N&W
Fruits and vegetables from the West coast-PFE,FGE
Apples,lumber,sugar,Washington and Idaho potatoes,manufacture good from the Northwest SP&S,NP,Milw,GN
Manufacture goods from the Southwest and central states,ATSF,MP,CB,SP, Frisco,KCS MKT.
Now add grain,wheat soy bean etc and you see how wide rail transportation was in the 20s.
Interchange of cars from all across the country was needed since local commerce demanded it.
Like in Grandma's day Washington State and Idaho potatoes still makes great baked potatoes. Those BAR "State Of Maine Product" boxcars was seen everywhere.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Yes, coal was the principal heating fuel except where wood was plentiful. I would expect that Maine in the 1920's had most homes heated by one or the other, with a few using oil.
Hoppers for home heat coal were usually 50-55 ton twins, with the larger 70 ton triples and quads being used for industrial customers. There were exceptions, so this is a gross generalization. Offset cars were rare; most hoppers were outside-stake cars like PRR GLa and GLc (Bowser, F&C, Westerfield, and others); USRA twins from B&O, NYC, and other Norteastern roads (Accurail and others); B&O N-12's (F&C kit), etc. By the way, most of these cars carried plain lettering without logos. For example, PRR's "ball keystone" made its first appearance in the very late 1920's.
Fruit Growers Express was formed in 1920 and was the largest refrigerator car operator in the East. Citrus products from Florida and other produce from the South would probably show up in FGEX cars. Meat from Midwestern packing plants might show up in reefers from the meat packers, but in actuality people didn't eat as much meat then because they couldn't afford it; and a lot of meat was locally grown and slaughtered. Produce from California might show up in PFE or SFRD reefers. Merchants Despatch and Western Fruit Express reefers would also be seen. Advertising on Refrigerator cars was legal at that time, so some reefers were quite colorful.
Boxcars might come from anywhere in North America. A friend once introduced himself to a group saying "I'm a Pennsy modeler," and a noted Santa Fe modeler piped up to say "We're ALL Pennsy modelers". The fact is, the Pennsylvania Railroad utterly dominated all railroading in the US in the first half of the twentieth Century. It is almost impossible to imagine a railroad that didn't have a few PRR cars in its trains, especially if that railroad was within a few hundred miles of PRR territory. This is partly because of the sheer size of the PRR and the size of its car fleet, and partly because the State of Pennsylvania was the very heart of American industrial production in those years. The New York Central was a close second, for the same reasons. Interchange boxcars on your railroad should probably include cars from NBew England roads like Bangor & Aroostook, Maine Central, Boston & Maine, New Haven, Grand Trunk, and Boston & Albany. Cars from Canadian roads would probably be present. Nearby giants were the PRR, NYC, B&O, Erie, and others in that neighborhood. There would also be cars from more distant roads in the South and West. The closer and larger the road, the more likely its cars would be to appear.
Livestock was still being typically moved by rail, so stock cars would be in evidence. I doubt that many Western stock cars would appear (I'm willing to be proved wrong), but I'm sure Eastern cars from PRR, NYC and others would show up.
For your time period, there is a lot of good equipment available. If you want a challenge, you might want to try one of the resin kits from Westerfield. Many of the prototypes are appropriate for your time period.
Tom
A very good introduction to American freight cars is this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Model-Railroaders-Guide-Freight-Cars/dp/0890245851/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486747443&sr=1-1
now out of print. Judging by the prices asked, others must agree. It does tend to have more "recent" coverage, but there's still plenty of information there about "the olden days". And it's presented in a sort of complete package, so that you have a scaffold to hold the various bits of other information you learn.
Ed
I enjoy reading this blog, and it has a guide to plastic 1920s Freightcars: http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/a-guide-to-1920s-era-ho-scale-plastic-freight-cars/
As far as Maine in the 20s, though, I am ignorant. I would search https://www.vintagemaineimages.com/ for useful photos.
Gary
Coal for suremost everything was coal fired, heating, cooking, industrial processes. Home use would be anthracite, low smoke, low ash. Those would be the eastern PA roads (RDG, LNE, LV, CNJ). Bitumonous coal would be the eastern roads, PRR, NYC, B&O, N&W. Boxcars there would be PRR, NYC, B&O just because they were the biggest fleets and close by. The NE and Canadian roads (CP, CN, GTW, MEC, BM, NH) because they are interchange or close to interchange partners. Everybody else based on traffic patterns. Textile mill that makes cotton socks, then you would be getting cotton in boxcars from the south (TP, MP, SSW, SP, IC, SOU, L&N, GA, SCL, ACL). Produce from the south and west coast (ART, PFE, SFRD, FGEX). Meat from the midwest. Steel from the rust belt (PRR, NYC, B&O, RDG, PLE, ERIE).
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
It just wouldn't be right not to have one ATSF boxcar. But. Whatever would they ship from the Southwest to Maine in a boxcar?
For that matter, a GN or an NP box would seem necessary.
A CB&Q, certainly.
From what I have studied on the topic, coal arrived by ship in Portland, Me and was loaded into Boston and Maine, MEC or Portland Terminal Company 55ton hopper cars (B&M and MEC cars available from Accurail). Not to say that coal was not transported over land as well, esp winter months due to ice.
There is a list of Maine Industries online by year, I will have to dig it out. Forrest products and stone (crushed and blocks) were traffic sources generated in Maine throughout its history. There were dozens of papermills throughout Maine making almost everytype of paper. Newsprint quality paper typically had dedicated service cars from MEC.
Pulpwood (wood too small to make lumber) typically 2-4" in diameter, sometimes a bit larger was hauled in gondolas and box cars. Specialty pulpwood cars did exist, but they were not interchange cars typically (with a couple of notable exceptions). Box cars from many of the eastern roads could be found at Maine paper mills (either being loaded with paper or pulp, or being unloaded with pulpwood if the mill was on the way back to the home road).
I have a list of B&M cars from that era that I can scan and send to you (I dont have a scanner at the moment, so maybe a picture).
Maine Memory network has a bunch of photos.
Canadian National did not absorb the Grand Trunk until 1923, so you would see a lot more of Grand Trunk Railway cars than CN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Trunk_Railway
Central Vermont was a Grand Trunk subsidiary.
CP also ran in Maine.
I would imagine that due to the large amount of forest products being produced in Maine, that you would not find all that many car loads entering Maine carrying forest products from other markets.
US railroads were still under USRA control in early 1920. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Railroad_Administration
I dont know if they make a reproduction of the ORER (Official Railway Equipment Register) for that era. I was fortunate to find a copy of the 1943 edition.
I was able to locate a Maine Industries List dating from 1939. Its the eariliest I could find thus far. http://digitalmaine.com/bls_docs/180/
How to keep warm in Maine: discussion of home heating fuels in 1925 http://digitalmaine.com/ogvn_docs/46/
Here is my search parameters I used to find the above from the Maine State Library:
http://digitalmaine.com/do/search/?q=(%20Maine%20Industries%20)&start=50&start_date=01%2F01%2F1920&end_date=12%2F31%2F1939&context=3363941&sort=date_desc#query-results
BMMECNYC I dont know if they make a reproduction of the ORER (Official Railway Equipment Register) for that era. I was fortunate to find a copy of the 1943 edition.
Westerfield Models will sell you digital copies for:
October 1919, May 1925, and December 1930
Don't forget about the abundant milk trains that ran as far north as Island Falls Maine on the BAR. The B&M and the MEC also had a large operating fleet of milk trains.
My sincere thanks to everybody for their contributions - way more information than I had even hoped for !
That will certainly assist in selecting appropriate cars. I am starting to realise why some modellers build up such a huge collection - there is immense scope for variety.
All I need to do now is source the models - there's not a lot of steam era stuff for sale here in UK. Maybe a buying trip to the US is on the cards!
Thanks again, all,
Once again, a detailed response disappeared before I could send it. Trying again:
Keep in mind the fact that steel cars were virtually unknown before about 1900. The dominant material was wood, with steel or iron components. The first all steel cars were hopper cars and tank cars. Even so, walkways and brake steps continued to be wood.
Examples of early hoppers are the Pressed Steel Car design and the Vanderbilt Patent design available as Westerfield kits. Westerfield has also made kits for some of the early N&W hoppers. The PRR GLa and GLc are also kits from Westerfield and F&C, and the GLa is available as an easier kit or RTR from Bowser. The PRR H21 four bay coal hopper and H22 four bay coke hopper were also introduced shortly after 1900, and are available from Bowser. It might be most appropriate to get the versions with clamshell hoppers for your era. The B&O N-12 twin hopper from F&C is also correct for this era. When the US entered WWI, the United States Railway Administration (USRA) was formed, and most cars in the next few years were USRA design. The most common USRA hopper was the twin, available from Accurail. The USRA triple was used by NYC and C&O, and is available from Westerfield. Offset side cars were unknown until the mid or late 1920's. B&O's offset quad hopper is nicely represented by the Athearn quad. Boston & Maine also had cars of this design, and B&M was closer to your territory. Some wooden hoppers were still being operated well into the 1920's.
Boxcars continued to be built of composite wood and steel construction for a number of years, although there were a few numerically insignificant experiments; and most boxcars tended to be shorter than 40 feet. Some older short cars continued to operate for many, many years. By about 1910, 40 feet was becoming the new standard. A good example of the period was the PRR X23 boxcar, introduced about 1909-10. It was PRR's first mass produced 40' boxcar, and the first to use large quantities of steel in its construction. Even so, the side sheathing was wood. Around the mid teens, PRR introduced the X25 boxcar and auto car series, which were the first mass produced all-steel boxcars. NYC followed around 1916 with their own proprietary design. Westerfield makes excellent kits for all of these, and F&C may make some.
The USRA produced three major boxcar designs: a composite single sheath boxcar with exposed outside bracing; a composite double sheath car with hidden bracing and vertical wood siding; and an all-steel boxcar. The first two were produced in great numbers for many railroads across the country, but the steel car was never built under the USRA. However, in the early 1920's, the NYC adopted that steel USRA design as its new system standard for itself and subsidiaries, and thousands were built. Westerfield, Tichy, F&C, and Intermountain have the composite cars; Westerfield and BLI make the NYC steel cars. The American Association of Railroads (ARA) had composite designs in this period, available from F&C. Around the mid 1920's, PRR adopted its new standard, the all steel X29, along with the companion all steel X28 auto car. These were based on the ARA design. Eventually, this probably was the most common boxcar type in this time frame because of its use in great numbers by PRR and others who borrowed the design, such as B&O.
Trucks ("Bogies" to you Limeys) were mostly Arch Bar type. A few odd designs such as Fox and others might be found occasionally. By the time the USRA came into being, the Andrews truck was becoming more popular, and by the mid 1920's, many new cars had one-piece ARA cast steel trucks such as the "Y" type used on the PRR X29's.
Roof walks and brake steps were universally wood. Steel wasn't used for these until later.
Bob,
Accurail sells cars with data only, no railroad or numbers. Check out the last 2 cars on this list: http://www.accurail.com/accurail/1300.htm
7j43k It just wouldn't be right not to have one ATSF boxcar. But. Whatever would they ship from the Southwest to Maine in a boxcar? For that matter, a GN or an NP box would seem necessary. A CB&Q, certainly. Ed
Ed,How about wines from California?,Lumber from the Southwest? Furniture? gypsum board, Manufacture goods,oil in 55 gallon drums, bricks.
NP and GN cars,lumber,sugar,manufactured goods bags of flour,feeds etc.
You still see lots of BNSF,UP,KCS boxcars in train consist every day.
We still buy goods made on the West coast and other states West of the Mississippi and from the Northwestern states..
Again - thanks for so much useful information.
One further follow-up - would I be right to assume that no "foreign" cabooses would be seen on a given railroad? I'd imagine that they would only travel on their home lines.
Cabooses seem to be in even shorter supply than other freight cars - anybody got suggestions where to find Maine-style cabooses that would be believable for my road?
Thanks, Bob.
Would the Atlas NE-6 caboose work for you?
http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/hone6caboose6.htm
If you would rather have a wooden caboose.
https://www.walthers.com/dm-ir-class-g2-wood-caboose-ready-to-run-pere-marquette-a471-red-white-black-roof
There are other brands of cabooses like Athearn-exRoundhouse.
http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=Eastern+2+Window&CatID=THRF
There's really no such thing as a "Maine-style" caboose. Each railroad had its own idea of proper caboose design, and they rarely traveled off home rails in that era. So the typical Maine caboose would be the typical caboose designs of the various Maine railroads. If your railroad is freelance, as I am assuming, then you are free to adopt whatever caboose design appeals to you. In that era, cabooses were almost all of wood construction. With all due respect to Larry, the Atlas NE-6 is a very desirable car, but it represents a later steel design and probably wouldn't fit the 1920's theme. Most had eight wheels, but a few four wheelers were still in service in some areas. It would be reasonable to assume that a small Maine shortline might buy a second hand caboose from a nearby larger railroad, reflecting the preferred architecture of the larger road.
ACYLarry, the Atlas NE-6 is a very desirable car, but it represents a later steel design and probably wouldn't fit the 1920's theme.
D'oh! You are correct..I forgot he was asking about the 20s.
A lot of short lines back then used a combine as a caboose since that was their answer for passenger service.
FowlmereRR Again - thanks for so much useful information. One further follow-up - would I be right to assume that no "foreign" cabooses would be seen on a given railroad? I'd imagine that they would only travel on their home lines. Cabooses seem to be in even shorter supply than other freight cars - anybody got suggestions where to find Maine-style cabooses that would be believable for my road? Thanks, Bob.
Centralia Car shops makes a very nice Boston and Maine caboose. http://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/ccs/html/CCS1220.htm
Its an NE-5 so probably a little out of your era.
American Model Builders makes wood laser cut kit cabooses. MRVP did a series on building the N&W version.
Yes, that NE-5 does look nice, but as you say, a bit late for me.
I have watched the MRVP series on building that kit a while back. Not sure about Cody's comment "If I can do it anybody can!", but I'd give it a go. (At least I shouln't get the window installation wrong now ... ). I think that's the direction I shall go in. My road will be more about construction than operation, so I won't mind spending the time.
Thanks for your help and suggestions, all. Back to planning now.
FowlmereRR"If I can do it anybody can!",
Bob,I have limited use of my right hand and of course I'm right handed and everything I do is "backwards" to me because I used my left hand for everything.
I had relearn a lot of things including my limitations and go from there and without a doubt that kit is beyond my limitations so Cody hasn't meet me.
Point?
With two good hands you should be able to build any kit.Go fer it!
Have I provided you with this link yet?:
https://sites.google.com/site/mainecentralrailroad/home
He also has a B&M site, link at the bottom of that linked page?
Just to chime in. I too have been bitten by the Maine 'bug' - I've picked out the Belfast and Moosehead Lake RR as a cool little railway. It was operated by Maine Central for the first part of it's life. There is a rather good website: http://cprr.org/Museum/BMLRR/index.html
This has details of the rolling stock (ex Maine Central and Bangor & Aroostook mostly), the sort of stuff carried and has photos of the buildings and locos (steam until 1947).
Does anyone know of a modern kitmaker that produces live poultry cars? Live chickens were a major export of Belfast (Broiler Capital of The World).
Some great resources there, especially the B&ML site - what an amazing source. I'll probably use some of that myself as inspiration. To find even the simple track layouts at small stations is valuable (always a temptation to over-complicate trackwork! just because we can!).
Thanks both,
ACY It would be reasonable to assume that a small Maine shortline might buy a second hand caboose from a nearby larger railroad, ... Tom
It would be reasonable to assume that a small Maine shortline might buy a second hand caboose from a nearby larger railroad, ...
Tom - that's just what I have been planning. The head honcho of my railroad was a mean *** and wouldn't buy anything new, so stuff from far and wide that was going cheap was the order of the day - i.e. I get to run just what i want to run, and hereby invoke the "my railroad, my rules" clause - very frequently
One other thing to remember - once you have waded through what sort of ARA cars etc should be on your line - is that the cars were rebuilt throughout their lives and re-painted over time. So the 1932ARA car that you see on eBay might be the right model but it may have a 1950 paintscheme.
Currently I'm stuck waiting for my wife to sell her business so we can move to Spain. I'm accumulating 'stuff' for the layout but not doing anything with it. It is a bit frustrating.
Malc
Here are some scale drawings of cabooses of various New England railroads, published in past issues of MR:
Boston & Maine --- April, 1960 and Jan., 1979
Boston & Maine, as sold to Montpelier & Barre --- July, 1988
Central Vermont --- Feb., 1953 (construction article July, 1953)
NYC (may be same as Boston & Albany) 8 wheel --- Aug., 1946
NYC (may be same as Boston & Albany) 4-wheel --- May, 1962
I have not actually viewed all of these drawings, so I'm not sure whether they are all correct for your time period.
Some railroad officials are also known to have observed equipment on a nearby ralroad and had new cars built to the same pattern for their own operations.
As mentioned, shortlines tended to buy used equipment from their larger nearby connections, but this wasn't always the case. A secondhand car might come from a more distant road. The Mississippi Central bought passenger cars from the Reading around the beginning of the Great Depression, and re-sold them about ten years later to the Akron Canton & Youngstown in Ohio. In fact, AC&Y also bought second hand gas-electric cars from the Bangor & Aroostook in New England! There were brokers such as Southern Iron and Equipment who arranged such deals for cars and locomotives. The Maryland & Pennsylvania also bought cabooses from roads with which it did not connect. The important question is whether the design you choose is appropriate for the needs of your railroad. It needs to withstand the rigors of a New England winter.