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Tender capacity

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Tender capacity
Posted by Sailormatlac on Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:36 PM

Hi,

I'm actually in the process of repainting a Bachmann Spectrum HO 2-8-0 in Canadian National colors (a good match for M-5-c class). Looks like there's a lot of debate around the prototype used for this model. Anyway, it's not the point since it is very similar to the engine I try to reproduce.

My question is: Waht are the water capacity (IMPERIAL gallons 'cause were are in Canada) and coal capacity (tons) of the tender. CNR always put these informations on their tender. A general approximation would be enough for me.

I took a few mesures and my estimate is 7000 gallons. For coal tons... I'm at lost. And CN added wood-plank coal bunker extension...

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Sunday, December 19, 2010 7:21 PM

Okay, I did some maths.

If I use ton in the strict sense of weight, I get a coal bunker holding 27 tons which sounds to much when I compare it to other tender capacity.

Using the freight ton,I get 16 tons, which sounds right. I guess I'll go with that.

BY THE WAY, If you don't modify the Bachmann tender, it holds 10 tons of coal.

It may helps other modellers...

Matt

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, December 19, 2010 8:58 PM

Matt, here's a link to the CNR sig.  If you click on "Cyclopedia", then on "CNR Locomotive Diagrams", you'll find a listing of all CNR steam locos.  Click on the proper one and you'll get a diagram with some useful information.  (Btw, the notation atop the diagram is not the info for which your looking - instead, consult the chart beneath the drawing, near the right-hand side.

While you're perfectly free to use the Bachmann loco for that CNR loco, all CNR M-class Consolidations had 57" drivers, noticeably smaller than the 63" ones (I think) on the Bachmann loco.

An even better match would be the N-2-b class, or sister road DW&P's N-2-a.  They're both very close on many dimensions to the Bachmann loco and the Bachmann cab is almost dead-on.  I have three Bachmanns which will be converted to these two classes, although I'm planning very extensive conversions.

 

Wayne

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:32 PM

Hi Doctorwayne,

Sorry for the novel I'm writing, but you always shake my certitude which is a good thing to progress... Thanks for the info. And I thought I did a good research job on that one!

Effectively, the Bachmann loco has 63" drivers. I can live with a difference of 1.75mm on the drivers... Many others details are noticeably much more over scaled... But that's my own perception of things. i tend to have much more problem if the silhouette isn't matching (domes and cab proportions)...

 "While you're perfectly free to use the Bachmann loco for that CNR loco"

Ahahah! You know, who would continue to drive blindly into the wall when told this! OK, our newspapers are full of that! Having not known about the N-2-b, I would perfectly have lived an happy life with my approximate M-5-c.

I made a few checks and found out I had pictures of N-2-b in my consolidation project folders. I think the Elesco feedwater and other details mislead my in believing is wasn't the good match. It is a little bit nearer to the Bachmann engine than the M-5-c. In fact, both cabs are good match, both boilers are good, domes and other fittings are better on M-5-c (it was on this aspect I made my initial choice), running boards are excellents on N-2-b (not at all on M-5-b, which annoys me now).

To model a N-2-b needs much more detailling parts to add (elesco feedwater, front box on the pilot, bell and other little things a M-5-c doesn't need) to get the right feel about the prototype. Honestly, I wanted to skip the Elesco feedwater, do a straight forward conversion and skip the repainting process... My LHS closed recently, so I don't feel like mail ordering one or to detailling parts at high price and waiting forever to get them. And I have already completed the tender conversion... I would just have to change my wood bunker extension for a steel one with stanchions which is quite straightforward...

An other question for you:

All N-2-b I've seen (2500, 2476 and 2467) have Elesco feedwater... What about the others? Were they all fitted with it by 1957? If yes, just to bad, if not, that could dictate which engine I will built...

Gonna sleep on that!

Matt

 

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Sunday, December 19, 2010 11:03 PM

Hi Doc,

Finally, I'll go with the N-2-b class. I shouldn't be that much of a challenge to it. But my question about the elesco feedwater remains!

Matt

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, December 20, 2010 1:40 AM

Sorry, Matt, I didn't mean to mess up your original plans, and my remarks weren't made to disparage your choice of locos to model or your ability to do a credible job of making it "look right".

I've been planning my N-2-b and N-2-a conversions for quite some time and have already done some preliminary work such as completely stripping the boilers.  I've even made some new steam domes and have all of the other detail parts on-hand.  These locos will likely have their running boards lowered, which will mean altering the boiler shells so that the running boards can be mounted directly on the boiler weights.  I also intend to modify the weights to make them heavier, yet keep them balanced.

 

All of the photos of N-2-bs which I've seen have the Elesco heaters, with the air pump moved to the engineer's side of the boiler.  The Bachmann tender is a good match for both classes, and the pilot is also very close - many of these locos were originally Western Region engines, with horizontally-slatted wood pilots.  While those were changed, they kept the original "Transcona" front-end treatment, which is the best-looking arrangement that CN used, in my opinion.

The N-2-as were equipped with exposed Coffin feedwater heaters (and some with tender doghouses, too) and are very brutish-looking locos - all business.  Incidentally, the CNR rated the N-2s the same as their Mikes for tonnage.

For "modern" Consolidations without feedwater heaters, at least some of the N-3-b and N-4-a classes would be appropriate.  The 2350, an N-3-b is shown in the book Steam at Oakville, and 2551, 2615 and 2629, all N-4-as, are also shown in the same volume, and all without feedwater heaters.  There were only 16 N-3-bs, but the N-4-a class encompassed 145 locos.  There may be other sub-classes that are appropriate, too.  There were also some CNR Consolidations with Worthington BL heaters, but the class and/or numbers escape me.

 

Wayne

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Monday, December 20, 2010 8:00 AM

Hi Wayne,

Don't feel bad about it! My initial goal was to model the CNR engine the closest to the Bachmann locomotive.

I shouldn't be that much more work. I already started to strip a few details and looks like it won't be that hard to do a N-2-b. Most of the work will include reworking handrails and the coal bunker. Only the feedwater is gonna be a challenge.

From the loco diagram, it looks like the feedater was a standard feature. I'll try to scratchbuild something believable.

"The N-2-as were equipped with exposed Coffin feedwater heaters (and some with tender doghouses, too) and are very brutish-looking locos - all business.  Incidentally, the CNR rated the N-2s the same as their Mikes for tonnage."

That is exactly the feel that I want for this engine. I'll probably go for the 2500 or the 2467.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help.

Matt

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Posted by andrechapelon on Monday, December 20, 2010 1:02 PM

Sailormatlac

Hi,

I'm actually in the process of repainting a Bachmann Spectrum HO 2-8-0 in Canadian National colors (a good match for M-5-c class). Looks like there's a lot of debate around the prototype used for this model. Anyway, it's not the point since it is very similar to the engine I try to reproduce.

My question is: Waht are the water capacity (IMPERIAL gallons 'cause were are in Canada) and coal capacity (tons) of the tender. CNR always put these informations on their tender. A general approximation would be enough for me.

I took a few mesures and my estimate is 7000 gallons. For coal tons... I'm at lost. And CN added wood-plank coal bunker extension...

Matt

It doesn't look like anyone really answered your initial question.  The Bachmann 2-8-0 uses the USRA medium tender, which has a capacity of 16 tons (of 2000 lbs) of coal and 10,000 US gallons of water. The Imperial gallon is 20% larger that the US gallon, so the water capacity is 8,000 Imp. gallons. As for coal capacity, the British long ton is 2240 lbs, which means it's 12% more than the US ton. Going by that, the tender coal capacity would be right around 14.3 long tons. .

Hope this helps.

Andre

 

 

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Monday, December 20, 2010 3:52 PM

Thank you for the specs Andre!

@Doctorwayne:

This morning, when I told the boys that some higher up at CNR offices decided to reclass the engine, I thought they were going to kill me! (jus kidding)

As the day progressed, the changes were easier than expected. I had to use my imagination to find alternatives for missing pieces.

The feedwater was made out of an old papermate ball-point pen and different gauge wire for insulated pipes. The new valve was a random piece in the junk box that fitted the bill. The bell was salvaged from my previous IHC 2-6-0 kitbash.

I'm quite proud of this one, it got everything that looks CNR to me: the front bell, the front and cab handrails and a feedwater. I didn't expect this at all at first! The engine is gonna see a lot of operation, so cramping too much details wasn't my goal. However, I'll probably improve some details until I paint it (especially replacing the red wire for a smaller gauge).

And the iconic fight between diesel and steam... It always remember me the front picture on old Bachmann user manual back in the 1980's.

 

I think you will like yours too. They look very bulky when the feedwater is added.

Now, I'm gonna bash the tender again.

Matt

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, December 20, 2010 5:18 PM

That's some pretty-decent improvising, Matt, and some quick work, too. Thumbs Up  I especially like the front-end treatment - you've really captured that "Transcona" look and I also like the job you did on the air tank cover.

Here are a couple of photos showing the components of an Elesco feedwater heater system.  As you can see in the second view, the steam delivery pipes to the heater bundle and the hot water delivery pipe to the check valve were often a larger apparent diameter due to them being lagged (wrapped in insulation).

 

 

Wayne

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Monday, December 20, 2010 7:40 PM

Hi Doc,

I'm on vacation now, so I was able to do an 8 hours rush on the loco. I don't regret the extra work to do a N-2-b, like you said it got the Transcona feel.

I used your pictures and prototype pictures for the feedwater. I guess I'll just have to rewire the cold water pipe from the pump. That's a good thing, I didn't like the clamps I made. I'll redo them wire finer brass wire.

I'm a little bit curious, on your brass engine, a large insulated pipe runs from the feedwater to the cab. What is its purpose?  I didn't see any on my prototype (engine 2500).

An other question about the tender. I redone the brass handrail and I'm now ready to build a new coal bunker. The only pictures I got are all 3/4 view from the front so it's hard to tell how it was made. From what I see, the sides seem to be tapered. Is it an optical illusion. Or maybe just the back side is tapered (as often seen on other classes of locomotive). On top, I can see a handrail which looks to be U-shaped (running on both sides and front of the bunker but not behind). If you have any information, pictures or diagram about this, it would be helpful.

Thanks again.

Matt

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 12:42 AM

Matt, most of my pictures are also 3/4 views, but if you can get a copy of Ian Wilson's "Steam to the Niagara Frontier" there are several good shots of N-2-b locos:  2506 on pages 6 and 17, 2470 on page 8 (a good fireman's side view) and page 174 (an elevated view of the coal bunker as seen from the rear), and 2469 on pages 104 and 106.

The bumped-up area on the Bachmann tender needs to be altered somewhat with a well-defined step-down at its front corners.  The lower bunker extension appears to taper slightly inward on its sides, but is vertical on the rear, while the uppermost add-on is straight on some locos, tapered on others, and non-existent on still others.  The handrail on the bunker extensions is higher than the lower extension and slightly below the top of the upper extension, so it appears that the higher bunker extension was added after the handrails were in place.  In all examples which I've seen, the handrails are along both sides and the rear of the bunker, but not at the front.

As for your loco, don't forget that the pump on the Bachmann loco is a cross compound air pump.  The water pump for an Elesco heater looks somewhat similar - it's the one closest to the cab in my first photo, above.

 

On the brass loco in my second photo above, that lagged pipe actual runs from a valve on the steam dome to the smokebox front, where it terminates in a flexible extension fitted with a plug.  This was used to supply steam to a Barber-Greene Sno-Loader, a device which scooped-up snow, elevating it on conveyors which then deposited it a modified surplus tender where it was melted by the steam.  I think these devices were used mainly in yards and built-up areas where there was no place to which the snow could be pushed.

Here's a photo from the engineer's side:

 

You can see the plug at the pipe's end, just above the transverse handrail:

 

The locos that most-often got these steam pipes were Mikados and 2-10-2s:

 

Wayne

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:49 AM

Doctorwayne,

Thanks for the information.

"The bumped-up area on the Bachmann tender needs to be altered somewhat with a well-defined step-down at its front corners.  The lower bunker extension appears to taper slightly inward on its sides, but is vertical on the rear, while the uppermost add-on is straight on some locos, tapered on others, and non-existent on still others.  The handrail on the bunker extensions is higher than the lower extension and slightly below the top of the upper extension, so it appears that the higher bunker extension was added after the handrails were in place.  In all examples which I've seen, the handrails are along both sides and the rear of the bunker, but not at the front."

It confirms my first impression. I've seen bunker extensions which were just wood plank on each sides (excepts front and rear) that were supported by the handrail. On the right side of the tender, I've also seen two grab iron beside the CNR herald. To be more prototypical, front tender steps should be reworked and extended... Lots of work to do on the tender front as I see. An other day, an other challenge!

Thanks for the tip about the air pump... My knowledge of steam power is merely cosmetic! I'll check what I can do when I'll redo the water pump piping. Looks like I will have to move the air pump on the other side... and eliminate an air tank and move the the device on the ash tray (?) near the cylinders... I think I've just opened Pandora box!!!! At this point, I think I'll have to make some compromises...

Since I have no pretense to follow perfectly the prototype on this one, but get the feeling of a CNR freight engine, here's my alternative. Strip the air tank, invert the reversing rod (build a new support for it under the boiler), install the air pump in the right place and shorten the piping under the running board. Sure, things wouldn't be pototypical, but at least all the working components would be in the right place.

I start to understand why you stripped the model completely!!!

Matt

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:20 PM

I completely rebuilt the tender today. Almost all original features are now visibles. The only unprototypical thing is the rear ladder which I suspect to be on the right instead of left.

Ready for the paint shop.

Matt

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:42 PM

Nice work, Matt. Thumbs Up

 

Wayne

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 4:26 PM

Thanks Wayne, don't forget I wouldn't have done any of this without your help.

Just for fun...

Tomorrow I'm gonna fix up the pumps once for all.

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:13 AM

Hi Wayne,

This morning, I built the new water pump from wire, styrene, sprue, diesel sideframe parts and infamous Accurail tuck pins. I would like to verify the piping with you since N-2-b have strange little things near the cab. I've got a lot of questions for you. I preer to check up twice instead of redoing at this stuff again.

 Here are the 2 pictures I use for my model and to locate pipes. For specific details, 2500 is the definitive choice (the feedwater and its pipe connections were modelled according to it since they differs between each engines).

http://cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=59704

http://cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=64393

http://cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=64814

 

 Here's a close up...

What is the cylindrical feature near the cab? A small pipe also enter the cab at its right.

From the water pump, a pipe run horizontally to the right, just below the lagged pipe connecting with the feedwater. Could it be the Exhaust Steam going to the feedwater (according to your pictures)? I'm asking because it doesn't connect to the feedwater but is plugged into the boiler were a small check valve (circular thing) is located on the Bachmann boiler.

A large pipe runs horizontally under the water pump and connects to the tender. What is it? M guess would be that it returns condensed vapor from the cylinder back to the tender... I remember reading something about this but maybe I wrong.

From the water pump, a pipe runs diagonally to the cab. I guess it commands the water pump from the cab.

Right o the sand dome, something looks like a enclosed whistle... What's is this?

 

 Here's my proposal for reoing the piping. I'm gonna strip all the piping on the boiler marked with X. The air tank is already gone and the small piping under the running board too. On the propotype, a small object is located right to the air pump, what is it? Is my pipe correct?

What should I do with the large pipes connecting with the tender? On the prototype, only one is shown and it seems to connect vertically under the cab. What's its purpose...

And finally, the worst question. the cyan (blue) rods are inverted on the prototype (the model have it on the left). I would like to reuse the Bachmann part, reflecting it upside-down. However, I'm at lost how I should connect it to the other rods. On the prototype pictures, it isn't very clear. it just seems to vanish behind other parts under the boiler...

Here's the proposal for the right side...

Sorry to impose myself on you with all that stuff... I guess it would have been simpler if CNR wouldn't always do things differently!

Matt

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:48 PM

This is as far as I will go for today.

Matt

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 7:29 PM

Very imaginative use of materials for your water pump, Matt.  Thumbs Up

I'm uncertain as to the function of that cylindrical part ahead of the cab.  My PSC cataloge shows a somewhat similar part as a separator with muffler, but gives no indication of what's being separated or muffled. Confused 

The outlined item which you correctly identified as a whistle is next to the steam dome.  The sand dome is the one ahead of that, with the rounded top.  The pipes coming from it are the sand delivery pipes.  The pipe in the outline below that of the whistle is most likely the steam delivery pipe to the water pump.  I don't think that the pipe ahead of that, which you've indicated with an arrow, is the exhaust pipe from the pump, though.  More likely it's a continuation of the diagonal pipe coming from the cab, and is a supply line for steam to the blower - you'll note that it enters the smokebox.  The blower was used to create draught for the fire when the loco is standing.  The exhaust steam pipe for the water pump is likely under the boiler lagging, and wouldn't be visible until it's somewhere near to the heater bundle.

The water pump itself has two distinct sections:  the upper part encloses a pair of 8" steam-powered pistons which activate a pair of 5 1/2" pistons in the lower section - these are the ones which move the water.  The steam in this type of pump does not mix with the water, hence the exhaust line to the fwh, where it helps in the heating process.  The air pump on the opposite side of the loco operates in a similar manner, with steam pistons in the upper area driving compressor pistons in the lower section.  Again, the exhaust steam is routed in a pipe, usually, but not always, under the lagging to the fwh.

Those circular things on the boiler casting are washout plugs, used to remove sediment from the boiler, and no pipes should be connected to them.

I think that you're correct about the pipe passing below the water pump being the condensate return pipe.  It's the smaller pipe coming from the fwh bundle on the engineer's side of the loco, shown in red in the view of that side of the loco.

All locomotives were required to have two sources of feed water: on locos equipped with fwhs, the cold water pump is one, and would usually be supplemented by an injector on the other side of the loco.  This would take water from the tender and put it directly into the boiler, either via a dual feed top-mounted check valve, as on these locos, or via a separate check valve mounted on the engineer's side of the loco.  In the linked view of 2467, the pipe between the injector (visible beneath the cab) and the check valve atop the boiler seems to be cut-off (it looks like this loco may be in a dead-line, as it's also missing its main rod).  It would normally be routed in a manner similar to that in the photo below:

 

The injector (Cal-Scale) is below the cab and visible just ahead of the cab steps.  The water pipe can be easily traced to the top-feed check valve.  The second pipe, coming from the shrouded turret and connecting to the injector, is a steam delivery pipe.  It uses live steam to activate the injector, drawing water by creating a partial vacuum within the injector.  Here, the spent steam is intermixed with the water, partially warming it.

The X'd-out lines in your engineer's-side view, along with the two with ? marks, should be removed and replaced as shown above. 

The two red lines which you've drawn-in connecting the air compressor to the existing piping are incorrect.  The steam lines to operate this appliance would be similar to those for the water pump, with the supply pipe appearing from beneath the lagging and the exhaust pipe disappearing likewise.  (It re-appears atop the smokebox, just before connecting to the heater bundle.)  The compressor connection would be similar to those shown below:

 

On your loco, the output pipe (exiting the pump from the lower section nearest the cab) carrying compressed air would likely be routed under the boiler to the cooling piping on the other side of the loco, then return (again, beneath the boiler) to connect to the piping under the cab.

The small item to the right of the compressor is an air strainer, which filters dirt out of the air before it's taken into the compressor.  That intake pipe enters the bottom front part of the compressor, with the compressed air exiting, as mentioned, from the rear.  Some compressor castings also show a connection to the upper part of the compressor, but to the best of my knowledge, it's merely to stabilise the strainer.

The item situated above the crosshead guides (in cyan on your photo) is the power reverse cylinder.  It's operated by either compressed air or steam, and re-positions the valve gear, as required, to either reverse the loco's direction of travel or to alter its operating characteristics.  You should be able to re-use the Bachmann part, as you said, by flipping it upside down and relocating it.  It should connect (or appear to connect) to the same point at which is does on the original Bachmann loco.  You can extend or replace the connecting rod as required.  The steam or air line to operate this device usually entered it at the end or top of the cylinder-shaped portion, and would be routed to the cab, not necessarily in sight.

In your last picture, of the fireman's side of the loco, the cold water pipe exiting the front of the pump should be attached to the upper front edge of the lower part of the pump (the "water" part).  It isn't a lagged pipe, so should be the same size as the intake line from the tender.  The steam lines as-shown are incorrect, but that was covered earlier.  The pipes in green look good, as does the blue one, although I would route it around the front of the firebox and then let it disappear behind the water pump - after all, it's supposed to be coming from the heater bundle on opposite side of the boiler.  One last thing:  remove all of the original Bachmann water piping from this side of the loco, as it's replaced by the fwh piping.

Sorry for having taken so long to reply, and to have gone on at such length, but I hope I've managed to address your questions.

 

Wayne

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:18 AM

Thank you very much Wayne, I didn't expect a fast answer after so much questions.

You know, building parts out of nothing is quite a funny process. Each time I do it, I draw a CAD drawing of the object in scale to get the proportion right, then I try to reproduce it with parts available. It's full of flaws I must admit, but it feels already good to have the right parts in the right place. I wouldn't put my finished engine beside yours, but I feel it will be at home on the layout. Consolidation have always been one of my favorite steam engine (including Mikado's). I see it as the smallest large steam locomotive. Smaller wheel arrangement doesn't have the heavy-duty looks.

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for folks that built up engine from almost nothing back in the 30's and the 40's. 

Good to know that the engineer side pictures I used as reference shown incomplete piping. I felt like the boiler was a little bit nude...  I removed completely the Bachmann piping, but  I'll probably reuse the valves. BTW, I'm quite happy to see the reversing mecanism will be easier to do than first expected. That's a relief.

I've found out that depending the locomotive, some pipes have or haven't lagging. Or could it be lagging was removed during the scrapping process in some pictures.

When painting the laggeg pipes, I will try to do some "faux-fini" with different shades of black.

I'll take take to digest and redraw a pipe diagram tomorrow. Modifications should be straight forward from this point. I'll probably remove the ugly Bachmann whistle. I'm happy to have some spare brass parts from Cal-Scale.

I hope I don't bother you with all those questions. It's easier to do modifications when you know the purpose of every parts. It my first extensive redetailling (which wasn't supposed to be 4 days ago!) and I find it much more entertaining than I first thought.

I'll keep you updated. Your comments are always welcome. They force me to push the limits.

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com

http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 10,576 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:36 AM

No bother at all with the questions, Matt.  On the contrary, it's nice to know that you're interested enough to ask. Big Smile

 

Wayne

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Québec City
  • 382 posts
Posted by Sailormatlac on Saturday, December 25, 2010 1:28 PM

Ho Wayne,

Good timing for Christmas, I just finished the modifications on the locomotive this very afternon. Engine and tender are ready for the paint shop. There's still some details that aren't perfect, but the ratio effort/effect isn't just good enough to bother. Honestly, I'm quite satisfied with what I've done and the result. It was my first important steam kitbash. I was always afraid to bash a steam locomotive and ruin it, but I'm happy you suggested me to take the dive.

You can't have enough Montreal Locomotive Works locomotives with a feedwater! Next project will be a major overhaul of President Choice CNR 5702, but this I'll take the time to get the right parts, particularly the cab with the rounded steps!

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com

http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 10,576 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, December 25, 2010 3:39 PM

Your detailing work looks great, Matt.   Thumbs Up  You're also correct about some things being too much trouble for too little return - I enjoy this kind of work, but I have my limits, too, both in time available and skill.

Here's a BLI USRA Mikado that I detailed for a friend.  She wanted a "representation" of a CNR Mike near the end of its service life.  I used pictures of several CN Mikes in different classes to allow inclusion of the features she wanted, then numbered it within a sub-class that had most of those features.  It's not intended to be a model of any particular loco or class, though.

This is the loco after painting, but before weathering:

 

...and weathered to the degree requested:

 

 

I used a slightly-modified CPR vestibule cab, from Miniatures By Eric, while the fwh is from Cal-Scale.  Most of the other details are from the original loco, some modified, or scratchbuilt.

 

The loco below is an Athearn Mikado, built for another friend.  While it's a pretty-good representation of CNR's S-3-a class (former Grand Trunk USRA locos built by Alco), it's not accurate for the 3736, as that loco was not equipped with an Elesco fwh.  However, he wanted that particular loco, as it's one that's preserved (like most of those in his collection), and asked that it be equipped with the Elesco even though it was incorrect.  (The 2-10-2 shown earlier is also his - note the CNR-style pilots - he obtained a number of them from an importer of brass models, and I've added them to several locos.  The last one was used on the 2-10-2.)

 

Here's another S-3-a, this one in brass - I can't recall if it came with the fwh or if I added it before painting:

 

This Proto USRA 0-8-0 was re-detailed to match photos of its prototype, but only after I was able to more than double its pulling power by removing the lighting and flywheel, and replacing them with additional weight.  The running boards were lowered and the rear frame modified to match photos, while the front frame was lengthened to accommodate the CNR-style front end.  The inboard-mounted air tanks were fabricated from brass tubing and strip stock and filled with lead, and new pilots/step boards were built-up from brass bar- and shimstock.  The loco was completely re-piped, as the original piping was all under-size.  I also made new front steps and a rear ladder for the tender, using brass strip and wire, and added the raised back-up light.

 

 

 

 

Wayne

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Québec City
  • 382 posts
Posted by Sailormatlac on Saturday, December 25, 2010 4:07 PM

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for sharing parts of your work. Very inspiring. I love the job you did on the proto 2000. I don't think I would go as far as you on this one, but certainly some work on the cab, front pilot and tender. The original paint does look too gray compared to the prototype and your model.

There's something mythical about Elesco Feedwater on CNR locomotives. I can understand your friend wanting to go against the prototype!

I already started to paint the locomotive. I quite satisfied how the piping turned out once painted black. It helped to scale done the electric wire. I'll probably post a few shots tonight as work is progressing. I'm visiting some family in Ontario tomorrow, so it will let time for paint to cure before decals.

I'd like to work on an other steam CNR project, something with a more eastern flavour. But as old folks I know told me, steam was almost gone in Quebec City by 1957, excepted for local trains and Quebec Central Railway. A typical steam engine for the area would be a 4-6-0. Unfortunately, Spectrum Roger 4-6-0, which seems to be a good runner just don't fit the bill, everything is wrong for a CNR engine. But I already have 4 proto 2000 PA-2 (2 A+B set) to paint in the next months and that will be my priority since it was the main power on north shore around 1957.

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com

http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Québec City
  • 382 posts
Posted by Sailormatlac on Saturday, December 25, 2010 4:52 PM

Here are a few shots after the first colors have been applied. I decided to go with a semi-gloss look for the solid black parts. Paint is Polyscale Steam Power Black altered with Citadel Skull White and Blood Red (I recently discovered these paints mix together pretty well). Rods will need another shot. Cab, Boiler jacket, tender and appliances received a coat of Model Master Gloss Clear Acryl heavily diluted with 70% isopropryl alcohol. Alcohol toned down the gloss into a nice satin finish.

I first wanted to get rid of the dumb looking Bachmann fireman and ingeneer, but they are almost impossible to detach. I don't what kind of glue they use, but that is so nasty stuff. I'll repaint them in the process to look better.

Looks like some of your plastic models have cab numbers in relief. How did you do this trick?

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com

http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 10,576 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, December 25, 2010 5:31 PM

The paint really brought everything together nicely, Matt.  Very nice.

Those Bachmann crews are held in place with ca - in the 2-8-0, there's also a plastic pin attaching the back to the seat-back.  I use an X-Acto #11 blade to first cut the pin, then work the blade under the crew's plastic bums - start the tip, then work it back and forth - you'll either cut through the glue or break the joint.

The cab numbers are etched brass ones from the CNR sig to which I linked in one of my earlier posts.  Most decent Canadian hobby shops carry, or can get them.  You get multiple individual numerals on a fret, then cut out the ones required.  I use a strip of masking tape to help align them and also to denote the proper spacing with pencil marks.  Then, holding them in place one-at-a-time with the tip of an X-Acto blade, I apply a very small amount of ca, using the tip of a second blade as an applicator.  All that's needed is a drop or two, drawing the blade along the joint to distribute the ca.  After all of the numerals are in place, I apply more ca, using the same method, to ensure that there are no un-cemented edges.  (The blade carries more ca than a pin, and its edge allows it to be distributed evenly.)  Any excess can be scraped off once it dries.

 

Wayne

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Québec City
  • 382 posts
Posted by Sailormatlac on Saturday, December 25, 2010 7:01 PM

Wayne,

I see. very interesting product, they even make the front numeral plate in brass. When I was a kid, I used to think these plates were license plates! I'll probably have to order them because a "decent local hobby shop" is the thing lacking in the old capital! Sometimes, I feel like 15-20% of my hobby budget is wasted in shipping costs and handling charges...

Thanks for the tip about the CA. I usually use a pin or a needle for precise work. Doesn't hold a lot of glue as you said.

And I have what I would consider a last question. What is the Hauling Rating for N-2-b class? Pictures I have are too much fuzzy to show anything useful. Only on 2500 can I see a 5, the second digit is unreadable... I guess it's around 5-something-%.

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com

http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 10,576 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, December 25, 2010 11:01 PM

The N-1, -2, and -3 class locos were all rated at 50%, while the N-4 and -5 classes were rated variously at between 38% and 41%.

 

Wayne

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Québec City
  • 382 posts
Posted by Sailormatlac on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:17 PM

Consider this project as completed.

Look at this thread for the finished model.

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/184657.aspx

Thanks for your precious help! This is gonna be a wonderful conversation piece on the layout.

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com

http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

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