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WP Geep cab number boards

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  • Member since
    April 2003
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WP Geep cab number boards
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 17, 2003 12:31 AM
I've been doing some research on Western Pacific locomotives for modelling purposes and I'm curious about something. WP was noted for using Pyle "Mountain" headlights on it's GP7, 9, 20, 35 and 40 models, and I've noticed that on the cab headlights, the numberboard area is different from other EMD locos with the twin sealed beam headlights.
The most noticable thing is that, with the Pyle headlight, the small curved area on the bottom center of the numberboard isn't there. The other thing I've noticed is that the flat area where the headlight is mounted looks wider. I'm wondering if the numberboards are the same, with just the headlight mounting area being wider, or if the boards are completely different.

John
  • Member since
    April 2003
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WP Geep cab number boards
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 17, 2003 12:31 AM
I've been doing some research on Western Pacific locomotives for modelling purposes and I'm curious about something. WP was noted for using Pyle "Mountain" headlights on it's GP7, 9, 20, 35 and 40 models, and I've noticed that on the cab headlights, the numberboard area is different from other EMD locos with the twin sealed beam headlights.
The most noticable thing is that, with the Pyle headlight, the small curved area on the bottom center of the numberboard isn't there. The other thing I've noticed is that the flat area where the headlight is mounted looks wider. I'm wondering if the numberboards are the same, with just the headlight mounting area being wider, or if the boards are completely different.

John
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Posted by wp8thsub on Sunday, August 17, 2003 10:57 PM
On the GP35 and 40 the entire numberborad/headlight housing is different from the EMD standard size and shape. Detail Associates makes the correct parts: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/229-2604 . Both the cab numberboard assembly and the light housing for the rear of the long hood should be included with that part number. The numberboards are designed for use with the Cannon Thinwall cab kit, but I have also successfully installed them on a Kato cab.

Note that at least one or two of the units originally equipped with the big light on the rear later had standard square housings installed, so try to find photos of both ends of the unit you want to model.

Rob Spangler

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  • From: US
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Posted by wp8thsub on Sunday, August 17, 2003 10:57 PM
On the GP35 and 40 the entire numberborad/headlight housing is different from the EMD standard size and shape. Detail Associates makes the correct parts: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/229-2604 . Both the cab numberboard assembly and the light housing for the rear of the long hood should be included with that part number. The numberboards are designed for use with the Cannon Thinwall cab kit, but I have also successfully installed them on a Kato cab.

Note that at least one or two of the units originally equipped with the big light on the rear later had standard square housings installed, so try to find photos of both ends of the unit you want to model.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 18, 2003 2:42 AM
Well, since I model in N, I'm guessing I'm screwed? [:(!]
I've got an Atlas GP35 that I'm going to paint as WP #3003 circa 1970, when it was painted in the "pumpkin" scheme. I have some good photos of #3003 from several books, most of which are from around 1971 after it had it's Pyle headlight replaced with a twin sealed beam.
I guess for the numberboard, I'll probably have to cut off the original and replace it with one made from styrene.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 18, 2003 2:42 AM
Well, since I model in N, I'm guessing I'm screwed? [:(!]
I've got an Atlas GP35 that I'm going to paint as WP #3003 circa 1970, when it was painted in the "pumpkin" scheme. I have some good photos of #3003 from several books, most of which are from around 1971 after it had it's Pyle headlight replaced with a twin sealed beam.
I guess for the numberboard, I'll probably have to cut off the original and replace it with one made from styrene.
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Posted by wp8thsub on Monday, August 18, 2003 11:45 PM
"Well, since I model in N, I'm guessing I'm screwed?"

Not necessarily. Befor the DA parts in HO were available, the standard number board housing could be modified with styrene to approximate the proper shape. The WP housing was slightly deeper than standard, about as deep as the bottom of the standard headlight's bulge.

File off the cast on Pyle light and add a round conversion plate like WP did when replacing the original lights with sealed-beam units. As for the rear light housing, you could use styrene tubing for the housing and again add a sealed-beam conversion plate. I'm not sure if such a part is available in N, but you could probably make one from styrene sheet.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
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  • From: US
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Posted by wp8thsub on Monday, August 18, 2003 11:45 PM
"Well, since I model in N, I'm guessing I'm screwed?"

Not necessarily. Befor the DA parts in HO were available, the standard number board housing could be modified with styrene to approximate the proper shape. The WP housing was slightly deeper than standard, about as deep as the bottom of the standard headlight's bulge.

File off the cast on Pyle light and add a round conversion plate like WP did when replacing the original lights with sealed-beam units. As for the rear light housing, you could use styrene tubing for the housing and again add a sealed-beam conversion plate. I'm not sure if such a part is available in N, but you could probably make one from styrene sheet.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 3:04 AM
The headlight for the rear (and as on GP7s, 9s and 20s) is available in N. I used such a part to model GP7 #710. I don't know if a similar headlight for above the cab is available. I'll have to check it out.
Would it be possible to gently file the headlight area flat to a point where the new headlight would fit? Since it is in N, I wonder if I could get away with it...
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 3:04 AM
The headlight for the rear (and as on GP7s, 9s and 20s) is available in N. I used such a part to model GP7 #710. I don't know if a similar headlight for above the cab is available. I'll have to check it out.
Would it be possible to gently file the headlight area flat to a point where the new headlight would fit? Since it is in N, I wonder if I could get away with it...
  • Member since
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  • From: US
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Posted by wp8thsub on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:11 AM
"The headlight for the rear (and as on GP7s, 9s and 20s) is available in N."

Careful, the GP35/40 housing isn't the same shape. It's a smooth cylinder with a notch on the bottom to clear the numberboards. If the sealed beam conversion plate is available separately in N as in HO you could use it for both the front and rear lights.

"Would it be possible to gently file the headlight area flat to a point where the new headlight would fit?"

I did that in HO before the DA numberboards were available. You should be able to get away with this in N. The different shape of the prototype wasn't obvious to me from photos and I only noticed it when I started using the DA parts. It's only obvious in HO if you really start looking hard from above the cab. Non WP fans will never know.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
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  • From: US
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Posted by wp8thsub on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:11 AM
"The headlight for the rear (and as on GP7s, 9s and 20s) is available in N."

Careful, the GP35/40 housing isn't the same shape. It's a smooth cylinder with a notch on the bottom to clear the numberboards. If the sealed beam conversion plate is available separately in N as in HO you could use it for both the front and rear lights.

"Would it be possible to gently file the headlight area flat to a point where the new headlight would fit?"

I did that in HO before the DA numberboards were available. You should be able to get away with this in N. The different shape of the prototype wasn't obvious to me from photos and I only noticed it when I started using the DA parts. It's only obvious in HO if you really start looking hard from above the cab. Non WP fans will never know.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 PM
[
Careful, the GP35/40 housing isn't the same shape. It's a smooth cylinder with a notch on the bottom to clear the numberboards.

I realized this after I sent my post. After thinking about it, I remember that the regular headlight is a rectangular shape, while the mountain headlight is round like you mentioned.
any idea at what date WP installed the twin headlights? I don't have any photos of #3003 between '66 and '71 and I'd like to model her in early 1970.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:37 PM
[
Careful, the GP35/40 housing isn't the same shape. It's a smooth cylinder with a notch on the bottom to clear the numberboards.

I realized this after I sent my post. After thinking about it, I remember that the regular headlight is a rectangular shape, while the mountain headlight is round like you mentioned.
any idea at what date WP installed the twin headlights? I don't have any photos of #3003 between '66 and '71 and I'd like to model her in early 1970.
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Posted by wp8thsub on Friday, August 22, 2003 12:44 AM
The 3003 received "Pumpkin II" solid orange paint in about 1966 but retained its original lights at the time. Most photos seem to show the twin sealed beam lights by 1971 or so on the GP35s and 40s. Try the Yahoo Group WP list for specifics on a given unit at a specific time, usually somebody there can answer.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 2,442 posts
Posted by wp8thsub on Friday, August 22, 2003 12:44 AM
The 3003 received "Pumpkin II" solid orange paint in about 1966 but retained its original lights at the time. Most photos seem to show the twin sealed beam lights by 1971 or so on the GP35s and 40s. Try the Yahoo Group WP list for specifics on a given unit at a specific time, usually somebody there can answer.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 25, 2003 2:55 AM
Someone on the WP List gave me the same date; sometime around 1971. I think it would be easier to get the Pyle headlight than the twins judging what I can see from product lists. I like the look of that better anyway. I really can't get a new project started until I get the first one done anyhow. I've got the last part I need for my GP7 now. That should be done soon.

John
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,206 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 25, 2003 2:55 AM
Someone on the WP List gave me the same date; sometime around 1971. I think it would be easier to get the Pyle headlight than the twins judging what I can see from product lists. I like the look of that better anyway. I really can't get a new project started until I get the first one done anyhow. I've got the last part I need for my GP7 now. That should be done soon.

John

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