Niagara type steamers???

[Jacktal]

I have a deep interest in steamers and am slowly learning about them.This way I got to be familiar with type names like Big Boy,Challenger,Hudson and so on.Lately I've read somewhere that there were Niagara type steamers without any more infos pertinent to these.Did this type ever exist and if so,what was their wheel arrangement,their purpose,etc?

Is there some sort of catalog or listing (book,website,etc) where I can find most models,specs,etc of the different steamers that were ever made?

[orsonroy]

Niagara is the NYC's term for a 4-8-4, which most roads called Northerns.

[marknewton]

Niagara was the name used by the New York Central to designate their 4-8-4s, and also the Nationales de Mexico for their 4-8-4s. The generic type name for 4-8-4s was "Northern", although many US railroads used their own names, the NYC being just one example. The NYC engines were intended as passenger power, the NdeM engines primarily for freight.

A good online guide to US steam locomotive types is at:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/

There are many good books on the subject of US steam, a good starting point would be Kalmbach's publication:
http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/01051.html

All the best,

Mark.

[Isambard]

Kalmbach/George Drury's Guide to North American Steam Locomotives is excellent. I bought a used copy on Amazon.com for a fraction of the new price.

Kalmbach/Linn Wescott's Cyclopedia-Volume 1 Steam Locomotives is good too, although light on Canadian steam.

British Railway Modellers of North America (http://www.brmna.com) has published a number of very good photo studies of Canadian steam. You should be able to find copies at your hobby store.

[:)]

[wjstix]

Generally the RR that first designed a wheel arrangement got to name it - "Hudson" comes from the first 4-6-4's, which were built for New York Central to use along their Water Level Route mainline which ran next to the Hudson River for example, "Mikado" comes from the first 2-8-2's, which were built for export to Japan.

Northern Pacific built the first 4-8-4's and named it essentially after the NP... "Northerns". For some reason, that name wasn't too popular with some roads, and quite a few used different names. NYC used "Niagras" as in the Falls, many southern roads called them "Dixies". I think there were 7-8 railroads that had their own name for 4-8-4's.

[marknewton]

Fifteen roads used names other than Northern, according to Wes's list.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/#rrs

[tomikawaTT]

The non-use of the type name Northern stems from cultural bias, not disrespect for the originating railroad.

NYC used the name Niagara after the most powerful river touched by the Water Level Route - a natural follow-on to the Hudson.

The decision makers drawing pay from the roads south of the Mason-Dixon line would sooner have stomped the Stars and Bars in the mud than have anyone call a locomotive in their territory a "Nawthuhn." Pappy would have flipped in his grave!

The mind boggles at the idea of the GS-1 being called, "A Southern Pacific Northern."
GS originally meant general service, but the later, higher-drivered GS locos prompted the change to Golden State.

And, of course, Nacionales de Mexico had nothing but contempt for all things Northern. Of the various alternatives, "Niagara" was the least objectionable, but they could just as easily dubbed it, "Inca."

Funny how political correctness entered the locomotive naming arena decades before the term was first used.

Chuck

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: And, of course, Nacionales de Mexico had nothing but contempt for all things Northern. Of the various alternatives, "Niagara" was the least objectionable, but they could just as easily dubbed it, "Inca."

I could be wrong, but the way I've heard it is that NdeM reps were visiting the shops where the NYC Niagaras were being fabricated. They were impressed with the locomotives and adopted the name for their own 4-8-4's, even though they were smaller. By the way, they spelled it 'Niagra' down here.

NdeM used the common designations for its locomotives, such as Mogul, Consolidation, Mikado, Pacific, etc.

Regards

Ed

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by egmurphy

I could be wrong, but the way I've heard it is that NdeM reps were visiting the shops where the NYC Niagaras were being fabricated. They were impressed with the locomotives and adopted the name for their own 4-8-4's, even though they were smaller. By the way, they spelled it 'Niagra' down here.

Ed, that's the story I had heard as well - it seems a likely explanation. And thanks for the correction re the spelling. The NdeM is a very interesting road, I'm always glad to learn more about it.

Cheers, mate!

Mark.

[Mark300]

Here's a site

http://abpr2.railfan.net/RR/rr.cgi?f=NYCRR&st=51

That has lot's of good photos for a start.

HTH

Mark