What happens to cause a loco to "fire up"?

[Anonymous]

This looks "interesting"

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=72945

What's happening, why... and what's the result...
please [8D]

[nbrodar]

It's usually caused (if I remember correctly) by raw fuel being dumped into the exhaust manifold. Most engines will flame on occation, particularly under heavy load. But constant fire from the stack is a bad thing, and indicates something really wrong with the engine.

Nick

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Sometimes it's from raw fuel dumping into the exhaust manifold, which is not supposed to happen. That doesn't do the engine any favors. Another cause is that sometimes soot will build up in the exhaust manifold and ignite, creating a spectacular fireworks show, and is harmless as far as the engine is concerned. It's the same as if the soot in your cars tailpipe caught fire. It quickly burns out and no harm is done. Ask me how I know!

[twcenterprises]

Typical GE. Poor quality control, bad engine design, CSX non-maintenance, defective etc..... EMD's don't do that.........as much. Old Alco's did the same thing. GE must have re-used their designs.

Brad

[Stevert]

This is common with GE's. Their manifold design causes unburnt fuel to collect while they're idling. When you notch them up, especially under load, this is the result.

I'm not familiar with this location, but I'd bet this train is throttling up after having waited for clearance, possibly to leave a yard or siding.

HTH,
Steve

[tomikawaTT]

GE prime movers are based on the old ALCO designs, which may have something to do with it.

I doubt that CSX maintenance had much to do with this, since the loco is clearly identified as NS. The Gallatzin Tunnels are located at the top of the grade that includes the world-famous ex-PRR Horseshoe Curve.

Chuck

[twcenterprises]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomikawaTT

GE prime movers are based on the old ALCO designs, which may have something to do with it.

I doubt that CSX maintenance had much to do with this, since the loco is clearly identified as NS. The Gallatzin Tunnels are located at the top of the grade that includes the world-famous ex-PRR Horseshoe Curve.

Chuck

When's the last time you saw a blue NS loco? Former Conrail, maybe, but not a TRUE NS.

Brad

[marknewton]

The export Alco's I used to run were prone to this. A mixture of unburnt fuel and lubricating oil would collect in the bottom of the turbocharger, and once the drain became blocked, the only way out was via the exhaust. I've had two instances of the loco failing on the road due to turbo explosions/fires...

Chuck, the GE engines aren't based on old Alco designs, btw. The FDL series and derivatives are GE's own design.

Cheers,

Mark.

[tomikawaTT]

twcenterprises

Almost certainly ex-Conrail, and probably had the temporary "PRR" road designator used during the Conrail breakup. (Chessie used "NYC.") The track is definitely post-Conrail NS.

I wonder what wag decided to put the PRR on rolling stock that would eventually (and now does) belong to the NS. Back in the dark ages, PRR was a major stockholder in N&W. My, how the worm doth turn!

Chuck

[Newyorkcentralfan]

tomikawaTT wrote:

"GE prime movers are based on the old ALCO designs, which may have something to do with it."

Where did you get this? Their pm's are based on Cooper-Bessemer designs, the rights to which GE purchased.

Eric

[LuthierTom]

C'mon, folks, that's just the afterburner! [;)]

[MIKE0659]

That flame is often caused by turbocharger problems, a partial or complete failure. When the turbo fails, the governor and fuel systems just keep dumping fuel in. It can also be caused by fuel system problems, like when the governor starts to fail.

I've also seen it happen on a long, hard pull on occasion, but again, mostly on GE's. I saw it a few years ago on the NS pulling the grade up past the Copper Creek Trestle in Virginia. The crew stopped to cool things down right near the Speers Ferry church, when they started pulling again, no more flames. That restart with the train stretched on the grade (With no pushers on the rear) was also pretty impressive.

The sparks that some others wrote about are in fact carbon build up. Usually this comes from a locomotive being in yard or local switching service for a period of time (Days, weeks, months) and never getting in a higher throttle notch or getting hot from being worked hard. The carbon builds up in the exhaust manifolds and stacks, when the locomotive works hard and thigns get good and hot, a pretty specatular fireworks display happens. The chunks can get pretty big and I wouldn't want to be close by when this happens.

The downside is that it can set lineside fires as the train travels along working hard. Not good since the forest fire types frown on this and will send a bill for the brush fires that are started by the train. Been there, done that, got the bill.

So what a smart shortline does is to get these locomotives out there and work them hard every so often to keep the build-up to a minimum. Failing that, you can just run it in the rain so no fires start.

Class I's have been known to de-carbonize a locomotive by either hooking them to a load-test stand or via internal loading systems (Newer locomotives have this feature.) and getting them good and hot.

[SSW9389]

Maybe it is because the cylinders are the same dimensionally. I do agree though that the GE FDL was a Cooper-Bessemer design. The Cooper-Bessemer FDL was put on the road demonstrating by GE in 1954. This was a year after the break up of the ALCO-GE locomotive marketing partnership. How much did the ALCO 244 engine failures influence GE's going away from ALCO and going to the Cooper-Bessemer design?[;)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Newyorkcentralfan

tomikawaTT wrote:

"GE prime movers are based on the old ALCO designs, which may have something to do with it."

Where did you get this? Their pm's are based on Cooper-Bessemer designs, the rights to which GE purchased.

Eric

[BigJim]

Contrary to what some have written here, this is most likely caused by a problem that has followed Dash 8's through the years. It is very common. What happens is that on the change from 4th to 5th notch the turbo hasn't caught up with the fuel input, read too much fuel/not enough air, lots of black smoke then lots of flames. Once the turbo catches up, everything is OK again.
Happens quite frequently with the Dash 8's. I have even had the fire deptment called out because someone called in thinking my train was on fire. It was nice to know that the FD could respond so quickly. I was almost sorry that I had to disappoint them.

[Anonymous]

This is exactly how it happens! I seen it everyday on our local switcher, and old GP30. We jokingly say "light er up!", or "light the candle".

QUOTE: Originally posted by MIKE0659

That flame is often caused by turbocharger problems, a partial or complete failure. When the turbo fails, the governor and fuel systems just keep dumping fuel in. It can also be caused by fuel system problems, like when the governor starts to fail.

I've also seen it happen on a long, hard pull on occasion, but again, mostly on GE's. I saw it a few years ago on the NS pulling the grade up past the Copper Creek Trestle in Virginia. The crew stopped to cool things down right near the Speers Ferry church, when they started pulling again, no more flames. That restart with the train stretched on the grade (With no pushers on the rear) was also pretty impressive.

The sparks that some others wrote about are in fact carbon build up. Usually this comes from a locomotive being in yard or local switching service for a period of time (Days, weeks, months) and never getting in a higher throttle notch or getting hot from being worked hard. The carbon builds up in the exhaust manifolds and stacks, when the locomotive works hard and thigns get good and hot, a pretty specatular fireworks display happens. The chunks can get pretty big and I wouldn't want to be close by when this happens.

The downside is that it can set lineside fires as the train travels along working hard. Not good since the forest fire types frown on this and will send a bill for the brush fires that are started by the train. Been there, done that, got the bill.

So what a smart shortline does is to get these locomotives out there and work them hard every so often to keep the build-up to a minimum. Failing that, you can just run it in the rain so no fires start.

Class I's have been known to de-carbonize a locomotive by either hooking them to a load-test stand or via internal loading systems (Newer locomotives have this feature.) and getting them good and hot.

[Anonymous]

Would someone in the cab be able to tell that it had just burnt?