early diesel facilify and company sand service

[Anonymous]

hello, I am new on this forum and I am the owner of Columbia and east hamlet RR, a free lance midwestern co located in eastern illinois(N scale).The modeled year is1959 and I have a problem with sand servicing on my railroad.
could you tell me when covered hopper(two bay) began to use in company sand service on railroads? i wish use them for my company sand service but I don't know if the modeled era (1959) saw cov'd hopper for sand service.if not,thanks to give me any information about sand delivery circa 1959

thanks folks and sorry for my poor english(I am european)

[TomDiehl]

Hello Arjd, and welcome to the forums. The type of sand service would be different from one railroad to another, depending on the facilities they had available. The key feature would be the sand tower at the terminal you're talking about. Most of them in the steam days had a sand drying facility there, so the sand could even be delivered in an open car, such as a gondola. Covered hoppers could easily be used in your era as well as the open cars with drying facilities in the sand tower.

An example of a sand tower with drying facilities:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3182

An exapmle of a sand tower that would need sand to be delivered dry:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/570-1011

[TomDiehl]

A prototype facility on the East Broad Top Railroad with the drying facilities in the base, and the storage bin above. The pipe extending over the track was the sand delivery pipe.

http://www.spikesys.com/Bin/EBT/rcs_75.jpg

[tomikawaTT]

In 1959, the key would be a management decision; is it cheaper to buy dry sand in bulk, or to dry 'green' sand as needed.

For a short line, it is unlikely that 50-70 tons of sand would remain dry in Illinois for the length of time it would take to use it. Sand is hypergolic, and a covered hopper would deliver at least a two month supply, so you would have to have a drying facility anyway. (It is humid in Rantoul, even when it isn't raining.)

That said, the sand supplier might prefer to load a covered hopper rather than an open gon, even with green sand. Much less likely to have some of the load blow away, and almost zero possibility of contamination.

[Anonymous]

thanks tomdiehl.
I have another questionsabout the use of covered hopper in company sand service...
are the railroad use them (for deliver sand to drying house) as they begin to appear in late thirties ?or much later(early fifties)?
my free lance co,is entirely dieselized,so what are the mains features of diesel facilities circa 1959?

[TomDiehl]

During the diesel era, the most accurate one would be the second link in my post above. The older type could also be in use as a left over from the steam era. It would all be a function of the money available to upgrade to the newer type. Since you're working on a free lanced model, the decision would be totally up to you.

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajrd

thanks tomdiehl.
I have another questionsabout the use of covered hopper in company sand service...
are the railroad use them (for deliver sand to drying house) as they begin to appear in late thirties ?or much later(early fifties)?

Some railroads were using covered hoppers for company sand service in the late 50s. I've seen photos of them on the C&IM and M&St.L. Both were older, two-bay coal hoppers that had been converted, presumably by the company shops. The C&NW also had conversions, but if I recall correctly they were three or four-bay cars.

Mark.

[Anonymous]

so its better to have open hopper or gondola for sand service or converted coal hopper(like northern pacific two bay) than brand new 1950 acf two bay cov'd for my company sand servicing?
ajrd
era Modeled: illinois in late fifties
my freelanced railroad the columbia and east hamlet rr is located in western illinois .it interchange with illinois terminal,CIM,wabash,Cb&Q and mainly the GMO...

[marknewton]

Yes, I think the open hopper or gondola would be a better choice. The ACF-style covered hoppers were too new to be found in company service during the 50s.

Cheers,

Mark.

[tjsmrinfo]

also if you are able to get both the kalmbach book and carstens book on engine servicing facilities.
both of these books have good information on sand service etc.

hope this helps

tom

[Anonymous]

thank you all for your help.
converted two bay hopper,open hopper and gons will work to sand service duties on my C&EH rr.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajrd

thank you all for your help.
converted two bay hopper,open hopper and gons will work to sand service duties on my C&EH rr.

No, yes and no...

A small shortline would probably not use enough sand to generate reason for the capital outlay and then tied up even in converting its own car. the thing would hold too much sand... which (as someone has said) wouldn't stay dry. But you could fetch in sand in any of the other cars... except that it would be LCL (less than car load).
So (what I would do is buy in dry bagged sand and store it next to something that stays hot like the boiler powering a small loco facility. Otherwise, buy it bagged and have a steel pan over a fire to tip the bag onto to dry it out before scooping it into the loco sand boxes.... or just tip it in an empty 40gallon drum over a fire...

[marknewton]

I suppose it would depend on the size and financial condition of the shortline - I got the impression from the original poster's description that his road is a reasonably large and prosperous operation.

As for sand staying dry in a covered hopper, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't. They were designed to keep the lading dry and free from contamination, after all. At my old depot we had a converted 50-ton coal hopper for sand storage, and the sand stayed quite dry in it, even though the thing sat out in the weather. And we were right next to the sea, so we had plenty of claggy weather!

All the best,

Mark.