List of 1st Generation, 2nd Generation, 3rd Generation (etc) Diesel Engines

[MontRailLink]

I'm getting ready to install some Soundtraxx units in some engines and need to know which engines are which "generation". For example, I know that GP7/9, SD7/9's are first generation, but what generation is an SD-35? Does anyone know of a list of the various diesel engines and which generations they are?

[Anonymous]

Not sure how others would phrase it, but here's my generation list for EMDs (edited with engines).

1st Generation:
FT-FL9 567
EA-E9 Winton-567
GP7 567
SD7 567
GP9 567
SD9 567
GP18 567
GP20 Turboed 567
SD24 Turboed 567
GP30 Turboed 567
GP35 Turboed 567
SD35 Turboed 567
SDP35 Turboed 567
DD35 2x Turboed 567

2nd Generation:
SD38 Non-Turbo 645
GP38 Non-Turbo 645
SD40 645 (all regular 645's were had turbochargers)
GP40 645
DDA40X 2x 645
SD45 20 cylinder 645
F45 20 cylinder 645
FP45 20 cylinder 645
SDP40 645
SDP45 20 cylinder 645
SD38-2 Non-Turbo 645
GP38-2 Non-Turbo 645
SD40-2 645
GP40-2 645
SD40T-2 645
SD45-2 645
SD45T-2 645
SD50 645
GP50 645

3rd Generation:
GP59 710?
F59 710?
SD60 710 (to my knowledge, all 710's are turbocharged)
GP60 710
SD60M 710
SD60I 710
SD60MAC 710
GP60M 710
GP60B 710
SD70 710
SD70M 710
SD70I 710
SD70MAC 710
SD75M 710
SD75I 710
SD80MAC 20 cylinder 710
SD9043MAC 710
SD90MAC 6000 HP H engine

4th Generation:
SD70ACe 710 Second Gen.
SD70M-2 710 Second Gen.

I would still count the SD35 as a first generation because it still used the old 567 engine that was used in the GP7-SD35.

[wjstix]

Yes in terms of which sound system to pick, I would call anything using the 567 "first generation". I think it also might have something to do with whether it has turbo??

Otherwise, in general railfan parlance, first generation diesels were diesels bought to replace steam engines, and second generation diesels were engines bought to replace the first generation diesels. In that usage of the term, many sources cite GM's 1962 GP-30 as the first "second generation" diesel.

[SSW9389]

This thread has the potential to go a long way. That said how do you all define a generation of diesels? Is it strictly mechanical or can an operational context be used. For example I can think of at least five railroads that purchased GP9s to replace FTs. Would that make those GP9s Second Generation diesels? Or would Union Pacific's turbocharging GP9s starting in 1955 make them Second Generation Diesels?

The GP30 was EMD's response to the U25B, not the first Second Generation Diesel. EMD had to catch up to the U25B to be competitive with it in features.

Are the 1958 SD24 and the 1959 GP20 part of Generation 1.9? [8D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

Yes in terms of which sound system to pick, I would call anything using the 567 "first generation". I think it also might have something to do with whether it has turbo??

Otherwise, in general railfan parlance, first generation diesels were diesels bought to replace steam engines, and second generation diesels were engines bought to replace the first generation diesels. In that usage of the term, many sources cite GM's 1962 GP-30 as the first "second generation" diesel.

[MontRailLink]

Jonathon, et al,
Thanks for the info. Believe for my purposes (installing sound units) knowing which series diesel engine (e.g. 567, 645, etc.) may be the key. Not quite sure how to Soundtraxx deals with turbo and non-turbo charged engines of the same series. But since they just market the decoders as 1st or 2nd Generation EMD that point may be moot.

[twcenterprises]

For your purposes, I'd say any non-turbocharged EMD would be first generation, and any turbocharged 567 series engine would be second generation. If I remember correctly, the GP20 was the first factory turbo'd loco; you can spot the difference since the early (non-turbo) units have 2 small oval exhaust stacks, and the later (turbo) ones have a larger rectangular exhaust port, usually with protective bars across it.

Brad

[SSW9389]

The first factory turbocharged EMD locomotive was the SD24 Demonstrator of July 1958.

Turbochargers have nothing to do with Diesel Generations. They were an added EMD feature at the time the generation was changing. The first U S built diesel with a turbocharger was an ALCO HH900 in 1937. Thank you Albert Buchi..

To call a non turbocharged unit such as a GP38-2 a first generation diesel is also not correct. See the above statement that turbochargers have nothing to do with diesel generations.

QUOTE: Originally posted by twcenterprises

For your purposes, I'd say any non-turbocharged EMD would be first generation, and any turbocharged 567 series engine would be second generation. If I remember correctly, the GP20 was the first factory turbo'd loco; you can spot the difference since the early (non-turbo) units have 2 small oval exhaust stacks, and the later (turbo) ones have a larger rectangular exhaust port, usually with protective bars across it.

Brad

[twcenterprises]

All that may be true, but the entire purpose of this is which sound decoder to use?

Brad

[SSW9389]

I have read on another list that the sound pattern for a turbocharged 645 would be much deeper than for a turbocharged 567. The same holds true for the Roots blown 645 versus the Roots blown 567. The 645 sound is deeper. I don't know if this has been faithfully done for the sound decoders in the current market. My point being that a second generation machine like a GP30 would sound different than another later second generation machine like a GP40. The same is true if you compared a GP9 to a GP38, the bigger engine will have a deeper sound.

[Anonymous]

Guys, I've updated my loco list with the ypes of engines they have. Hope this helps when selecting sounds.