Minnesota-type 40' Ore Cars

[Anonymous]

I'm curious to know if these were ever used for coal, instead of taconite or iron ore?

[dknelson]

Actually the Minnesota (twin ports) ore cars were much shorter than 40 feet. More like 30.
Very unlikely that the ore cars were regularly used to ship coal Coal hoppers and gons are bigger because coal is lighter than ore. A fully loaded ore car is just as heavy, if not heavier because of the greater weight of the load, as a loaded 40 ft coal hopper.
Sometimes ore would be shipped in coal hoppers in which case it was just two small piles of ore directly over the trucks, to prevent cracking the frame.
When the ore cars were modified to handle taconite the sides were raised because taconite (ore mixed with clay) is lighter than pure ore so again the load could be bigger and still be the same weight.

Putting coal into an ore car would have been inefficient for the shipper and customer alike. I cannot say it was never done. Since ore is seasonal (the ore boats don't run in the winter) it is possible someone worked out an acceptable tarrif for them to ship coal.

I can say for sure, however, that some years ago on the Peoria & Pekin Union (and yes, that is pronounced "Pee and Pee-Yoo!") I saw a local freight go by where really old old ore cars in captive noninterchange service were loaded down with scrap steel and old wire -- high above the tops of the cars. It sounded like every wheel was flat and every rivet was loose when it went shambling by.
Dave Nelson

[tomikawaTT]

When the Lakes froze, all of those 24 foot DM&IR ore jimmies stood still until the next thaw (or just before it, when the mines reopened and it was time to start filling the pockets on the ore piers.) Aside from their inability to carry a full load, the Lakes were frozen during the time that coal would be most needed.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Ore jennies were 24' long because of the density of natural iron ore and the size of the ore pockets on loading docks and hatches on lake boats. Because of their short length and heavy weight, most roads had lots of restrictions for them posted in the Special Instructions of the employee timetable.

[wjstix]

I've seen a couple of references to ore cars on the Missabe and other nearby roads being used for coal, but it wasn't a normal thing. Like if the DM&IR might send a few ore cars loaded with coal (or ballast) north to some remote engine facility that was running low. I think I read somewhere that MILW ore cars were sometimes used for moving coal a little bit too, but usually just as a fill in measure on a short haul.

However it's not unusual at all for tac cars to be used to haul limestone when going back to the pellet plant for reloading, as the limestone comes by boat to Duluth and taconite plants need the limestone in creating the pellets. Kinda neat to see a train of cars with a white load heading north, passing a train with steaming black pellets going south.

[Anonymous]

Actually (on the LS&I) the ore cars would still be moved. They would move the ore cars from the mines to the yard at the docks. That is on LS&I. I don't know about DM&IR.

[CMSTPP]

All Ore cars here in Duluth are used to haul iron ore. These cars were not made to haul coal. The dumpers at the bottom of the car was made to release iron ore. if coal was released through there it would all get stuck (Since most coal chunks are about the size of a human hand) and then there would be a problem. That's why the beth gon was made.
The beth gon is made specifically for coal. The dumper or, air release slide bottom, has larger slots so the coal will go through more effeciently. Also these cars are 35 to 40 feet longer than the ore cars. They can carry about 100 tons of coal. The car itself is 63 tons making the car weigh 163 tons when loaded.The simple names for these cars is the coal car. The iron ore car wieghs about 100 tons when full. You must also remember that there are three or four different types of iron ore cars.

James

[wjstix]

I think we need to back up a little here. The question wasn't 'were iron ore cars designed to haul coal' but 'were iron ore cars EVER used to haul coal etc.". No of course they weren't designed to haul anything other than iron ore, but there certainly have been situations where a railroad has used an ore car to haul coal or ballast or sand - often in company service, i.e. taking a car or two of sand to a sand house for drying to use in locomotives. Raw iron ore - unlike taconite pellets - is pretty 'lumpy' and harder to funnel thru a hopper car's doors than coal would be, so I would assume coal could be dumped from an ore car if needed, the hopper door opening is pretty big.

So, did the Missabe Road run a string of 50 ore cars with coal in a train?? No !! But one or two cars here and there were certainly done, but very very rarely. In steam days I know coal was occassionally taken to the range for use in coaling docks for the railroad, maybe even a couple of cars going to a local coal dealer.

I might have confused folks about the limestone...the Missabe gets limestone by boat in Duluth. The limestone is needed by taconite plants on the range. Sometimes, rather than run taconite ore cars back to the range empty, the Missabe would load them with limestone, since the cars are going back to the same taconite pellet plants that the limestone needs to get to. The ore cars, once empty, would be loaded with hot pellets and taken back to Duluth (or Two Harbors).