Prototype for Bachmann Spectrum Santa Fe-type 2-10-2?

[Isambard]

The Grizzly Northern has just taken delivery of its first Santa Fe-type 2-10-2, a real beauty, like other Spectrum steam locomotives. It's undecorated and has yet to receive GNR markings and some customizing touches, perhaps including a smokebox-mounted Elesco feed water heater.

On examining the builders plate with a magnifying glass I see it reads "American Locomotive Company, 45921, Schenectady Works, January 1903".

I would be interested in any technical information and history about the prototype and the authenticity of the model. I suspect it represents a generic 1915-1920 era light USRA loco. I'm only curious, since I'm happy with its appearance.

[:)]

[wjstix]

Hmm...I'll have to see what my DMIR 2-10-2 says on the builders plate. But yes they are USRA engines which first went into production in 1918-1919, but as with all USRA engines I'm sure copies were made for many years afterwords.

[JimValle]

All the data you'll ever want to know is available in book form. You need to find a copy of "Uncle Sam's Locomotives" by Gene Huddleston available through Ron's Books, e-mail: [e-mail]. Book lists at $45.50

[twhite]

The Spectrum model is a very accurate representation of the light 2-10-2 designed by the United States Railway Administration between 1917-19 and assigned to various railroads during World War I, which certainly DIDN'T begin in 1903. (1914 in Europe, 1917 when the US entered). I'm curious about that builder's plate--it seems somewhat fanciful at best. The Santa Fe had pre-WWI 2-10-2's, but they had very little resemblance to the USRA light models, which were produced between 1918-19 (with copies made for some years after that). The original ATSF 2-10-2's (900 series) were shorter in length than the USRA's, and had much smaller drivers (to me, they looked like an ATSF 1850 2-8-0 with more wheels crammed under the boiler). So the builder's plate isn't from one of those (the ATSF 2-10-2's were all built by Baldwin, anyway). Frankly, I think somebody at the Spectrum factory was just having a little fanciful fun and didn't think anyone would get that curious about the plate (the person DEFINITELY should have known better, IMO!). The only other reason for the date that I can think of is that whoever designed the plate flunked their High School World History course.
Tom [:D]

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

On examining the builders plate with a magnifying glass I see it reads "American Locomotive Company, 45921, Schenectady Works, January 1903".

awww . after reading that i was thinking i could get one for my 1900-1905 railroad . guess i'll stick with the 4-6-0's 2-8-0's and maybe a 2-8-2

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

Hmm...I'll have to see what my DMIR 2-10-2 says on the builders plate. But yes they are USRA engines which first went into production in 1918-1919, but as with all USRA engines I'm sure copies were made for many years afterwords.

Have you (or others) had a look at the builders plate on each side of the 2-10-2?
I was curious as to whether Bachmann might have borrowed the same plate as on their 4-6-0-but I'm told it reads Baldwin Locomotive Works Philadelphia 34943 July 1904.

[:)]

[Isambard]

Looking at the Builders Plate on the linked page below I think I see were Bachmann got its info for the 2-10-2 Builders Plates.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/builders/

[wjstix]

Naturally I couldn't find my magnifying glass last night so couldn't read much on the DMIR 2-10-2's builder plates. I can see it's round and has a large five digit number in the middle. [:I]

BTW only a relatively small number of USRA engines were delivered before the war had ended in Nov 1918, most weren't delivered until early 1919. I think the USRA continued to run the railroads into late 1919 or even very early 1920.

[orsonroy]

Be VERY careful if you buy one of these engines and care anything for the prototype: Bachmann has released these engines with their as-delivered Southern valve gear. Very few roads actually used this gear (including the Southern, which preferred Baker) and most of the USRA light 2-10-2s had the original gear replaced before the Depression.

So what? So, most of the Bachmann engines are decorated in a post-Depression paint scheme, meaning that the engines are complete fantasy.

Bachmann did release one engine (the SAL version) with its prototypically correct long Baker gear. Again, no good for the rest of us, since the Southern gear was mostly replaced in favor of either short Baker or Walschaerts gear, especially the engines that were copies of the USRA originals.

[wjstix]

Found the magnifying glass last night !! My DMIR no. 508 has a round builders plate saying:

Baldwin Locomotive Works
July
34946
1918
Philadelphia USA

The Missabe's USRA 2-10-2's were delivered in early 1919, so this is reasonably close.
____________________________________________________________

"So what? So, most of the Bachmann engines are decorated in a post-Depression paint scheme, meaning that the engines are complete fantasy."

Not sure what this means?? The Missabe's 2-10-2's for example were delivered to the "old" Missabe (Duluth Missabe and Northern - it would be nice to have that available ready to run too), the DM&N merged with the D&IR in 1938 to form the Duluth Missabe and Iron Range so my no. 508's DMIR markings are correct for the engine from 1938 to it's retirement in 1959. I'm sure many USRA engines lasted until the end of steam on other roads too.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

"So what? So, most of the Bachmann engines are decorated in a post-Depression paint scheme, meaning that the engines are complete fantasy."

Not sure what this means?? The Missabe's 2-10-2's for example were delivered to the "old" Missabe (Duluth Missabe and Northern - it would be nice to have that available ready to run too), the DM&N merged with the D&IR in 1938 to form the Duluth Missabe and Iron Range so my no. 508's DMIR markings are correct for the engine from 1938 to it's retirement in 1959. I'm sure many USRA engines lasted until the end of steam on other roads too.

Yes they did. BUT, very few USRA engines looked anything like they did in 1950 as compared to their 1919 delivery. Virtually all of the switchers were refitted with cut back tenders, but all were delivered with standard tenders. Many roads added feedwater heaters and changed the piping on most of their Mikes. And in the case of the few 2-10-2s that were delivered, almost all of them had their Southern valve gear changed to a more common Baker or Walschaerts type gear by the 1930s.

So the paint might be correct, but the base engine isn't. I'm not expecting Bachmann to add every road-specific detail to each engine they sell, so long as the base model is correct. It's easy enough to add details, but when something major like the valve gear is wrong, you might as well chuck the whole engine.

A warbonnet SD-90MAC would have the correct lettering too...

[wjstix]

Well...OK, I kinda agree with your point...sort of. I would make a difference between detailing and decorating. My DMIR 2-10-2 is very accurately lettered for that DMIR engine from 1938 to 1959. DMIR engines went thru many external detail changes, and it would require some changes to make it exactly correct for this engine in one particular year. However that doesn't mean the paint scheme and lettering are wrong.

A "warbonnet" SD-90 would have the wrong lettering since BNSF never (as far as I know) never bought an SD-90 and lettered it that way...there were some ATSF/BNSF warbonnet 'big diesels' like the GE C44-9W though.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

Found the magnifying glass last night !! My DMIR no. 508 has a round builders plate saying:

Baldwin Locomotive Works
July
34946
1918
Philadelphia USA

The Missabe's USRA 2-10-2's were delivered in early 1919, so this is reasonably close.
____________________________________________________________

Strange that Bachmann would have different builders plates on the different 2-10-2's offered since authenticity isn't their strong point e.g. valve gear and paint schemes, apart from the 1903 builders plate on my undec. Makes you wonder how they go about their business.

Short of replacing the builders plates I think I'll read that build date as January 1923. Someone will undoubtedly tell me that American Locomotive Company didn't build light USRA 2-10-2's or if they did not in January 1923 or some other such denial.

Oh well, good thing that the Grizzly Northern is freelance. It allows me to play with the truth, within reasonable limits of course. Talking to the Superintendent of Motive Power, I've just learned that he likes the Southern valve gear!

[:)]