Any Pennsy help appreciated

[Anonymous]

I want to model a pennsy coal branch in HO scale. Are their any useful links on the net that could help me with this topic? The time period I want to model is the late steam era. Right now I am focusing on the following equipment: 2-8-0 and 2-8-2 steam locomotives and 34' two bay 55 ton hoppers. Is this equipment correct for the time frame? One thing I am confused on is the paint on the hoppers. I thought the Pennsy had BCR hoppers but I have been searching for hoppers online and I have noticed some black 2 bay Pennsy hoppers made by Accurail. Did PRR have Black and BCR coal hoppers? Sorry for the length of the email and so many questions but I want start off on the right foot and not waste any money. $$ are a concern [:D] Any help will be greatly appreciated and if their are previous posts on the same topic please direct me to them.

Thanks,
Whit...

[nbrodar]

As far as I know, most PRR hoppers were BCR. Black hoppers started appearing in the later 40s, however I don't know it any 34' hoppers were painted black. Best place to look is: http://prr.railfan.net/

Nick

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the link Nick. Their is some valuable information on the site! [:)]

Whit.....

[balearic]

I think the PRR started painting some hoppers black in the late '50s or early '60s, but these were pretty much all three-bay cars similar to the Stewart and old Roundhouse cars. The best place to look for that information is John Teichmoeller's opus about PRR hoppers, Pennsylvania Railroad Steel Open Hopper Cars: A Guide for Enthusiasts .

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965536548/qid=1135951247/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-7190941-5283369?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

When you say you want to model a coal branch, do you mean a branch to a coal mine, or one where coal is carried to market? A couple books you may want to read are Dave Frary's The Pennsy Middle Division in HO Scale

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0890242763/qid=1135951519/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/102-7190941-5283369?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

and Bill Caloroso's Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0944119123/qid=1135951619/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7190941-5283369?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

though I think Bill's book may be out of print.

You may want to figure out which branch you want to model and do a Google search for more info.

I hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by balearic

When you say you want to model a coal branch, do you mean a branch to a coal mine, or one where coal is carried to market? A couple books you may want to read are Dave Frary's The Pennsy Middle Division in HO Scale

I hope this helps.

Thank you for all of the book titles. That should help in my research. I want to model a branch with a coal mine on it but also include some sort of power plant for delivery as well.

Whit...

[Anonymous]

Here is a web site that offer you some help, www.coalcampusa.com

Doug

[tigerstripe]

The most common hoppers of that era were the 2 bay GLa, and the 4 bay H21, both available from Bowser. The ones from Accurail and Athearn are a USRA version and while the PRR did have 500 of them the other 2 classes numbered 25,000 (GLa), and 35,000 for the H21.

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http://kc.pennsyrr.com/freightops/54_fleet/index.ws4d

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Also if you have A LOT of time to spend, try

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http://kc.pennsyrr.com/freightops/index.html

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http://kc.pennsyrr.com/

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[Anonymous]

The last websites mentioned are the best. Also, Google "Olean" and "Buffalo Division", PRR... The mainline between Olean and Buffalo, N.Y. was the key freight line for the Pennsy to get coal and merchandise into Buffalo. The line from Olean to Renovo also had some very interesting scenery, heavy grades and similar heavy use of Decapods, Mikes and Mountains in the late steam era. A better Pennsy guy should correct me, but I don't know if Consols were used on the Buffalo branch in mainline freight during the late steam era. They were mostly local freight..

SMS

[balearic]

H8, H9 and H10 consols tended to be used for local jobs and switching in the transition era. L1 Mikes, I1 Hippos (decapods), and some M1 and M1a Mountains were used on most freights in the Northern Region (Elmira Branch, Mount Carmel ore train/Northumberland area, Buffalo line). If you want to backdate to the '30s or '40s, you'd be able to use the Consols, but would lose the M's.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by balearic

H8, H9 and H10 consols tended to be used for local jobs and switching in the transition era. L1 Mikes, I1 Hippos (decapods), and some M1 and M1a Mountains were used on most freights in the Northern Region (Elmira Branch, Mount Carmel ore train/Northumberland area, Buffalo line). If you want to backdate to the '30s or '40s, you'd be able to use the Consols, but would lose the M's.

The way things are going I may scrap the whole idea. I used to model N scale and it was hard to find certain items in N scale. I thought it would be fairly easy to find HO scale steam locomotives, and their are a few choices out there but they are not cheap and not easily found. When I searched on ebay I thought I would find more steam locomotives [banghead]. Maybe I will mix late generation steam and early diesel together. That way I can be more patient in acquiring steam locomotives. Thanks for the help.

Whit...

[balearic]

Don't give up. You should be able to get Bowser steam engines almost anywhere, and lower-end or older brass for $200-350 per. Also, I read that someone is coming out with a DCC-ready I1 next year, but I don't recall the manufacturer or the price. Yeah, that's a lot of money, but it's about the same as an A-B set of Athearn or Intermountain F units these days.

Good luck with your project.

[bikerraypa]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WhitneyBN


The way things are going I may scrap the whole idea. I used to model N scale and it was hard to find certain items in N scale. I thought it would be fairly easy to find HO scale steam locomotives, and their are a few choices out there but they are not cheap and not easily found. When I searched on ebay I thought I would find more steam locomotives [banghead]. Maybe I will mix late generation steam and early diesel together. That way I can be more patient in acquiring steam locomotives. Thanks for the help.

Whit...

Hang in there, Whit. I'm doing the same thing, a transition era coal branch of the Pennsy (Western Allegheny), but mine is in N scale. Like you noted, steam choices are somewhat limited for the PRR fans if accuracy is important. Bowser makes nice, affordable Pennsy steam in HO, and with a little work it can be made into some great stuff. H21 hoppers are readily available, and you can use a lot of other roads' equipment as well. I have photos from back in the 50's of some coal trains, and you see hoppers from the PRR, B&LE, B&O, Western Maryland and many others, which opens up your choices considerably.

Geographically, where is your line to be located? I might have some pictures that could help you out a bit.

Good luck!


Ray

[Anonymous]

Bowser all the way. If you look at their website, www.bowser-trains.com I believe they still have kits for nearly two-thirds to half price. It's a great deal. Especially if you love Pennsy. BTW, you should support them, so they continue to be a great maker of die-cast kits and hopefully a few more USRA models for everyone else who doesn't model the Standard Railroad of the World.
SMS

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by balearic

You should be able to get Bowser steam engines almost anywhere, and lower-end or older brass for $200-350 per. Also, I read that someone is coming out with a DCC-ready I1 next year, but I don't recall the manufacturer or the price.

That would be Precision Craft Models (http://www.precisioncraftmodels.com/), an off-shoot of Broadway Limited, Inc. They are coming out with the dual-mode (DCC & Analog) I1sa in HO scale mid-year, and an M1a and M1b in N scale late summer. Both with ESU Loksound factory-installed. Street price is going for just under $300. [:)]

Regards,

Bob Lyon
Owner/Moderator,
PRR_Elmira_Branch Group on Yahoo