Streetcars

[jecorbett]

I'm considering including a streetcar in my yet to be built downtown scene. The only ones listed by Walthers are from Bachmann. Quality is suspect but it looks like these are standard HO gauge. I vaguely remember streetcars from my youth but I would be surprised to learn that they ran on standard gauge track. Is standard gauge track correct for a streetcar? Did streetcars even have their own standard gauge or would it vary from city to city?

[kansaspacific1]

I don't know about other cities, but Kansas City Public Service (streetcar or trolley
system) had a couple of General Electric Freight motors (steeplecabs) which pulled
freight cars that interchanged with KCKV (Kansas City Kaw Valley) which interchanged with Santa Fe and Rock Island, so the track would have been standard gauge. After 1957, when the Kansas City system switched to buses, PCC cars were sold toTampico Mexico, Belgium and Toronto. Some of the Toronto cars later went to Philadelphia and San Francisco. I think some of the San Francisco cars are still in use today.

For other alternatives for streetcar models, check this website: ihphobby.tripod.com
The offer resin shells for PCC cars based on specific prototypes that used Bowser
floors and mechanisms.

[DSchmitt]

Standard gauge was probably the most common, but other gauges were used, somtimes because of the preferences of the builders, other times required by the franchising governments to prevent interchange with the steam railroads.

[BR60103]

From my memory, I think standard gauge was commonest. A lot of the lines hooked up with regular railroads.
Toronto had a wide gauge 4' 10 7/8" (1.5 meters), but some parts of the system were standard gauge before being absorbed. Mandated by the city.
I think Philadephia and Pittsburgh are both wide - in the 5 foot range.
I think Boston is standard.
Los Angeles Railway was narrow - 3 feet, 3 feet 6"?
Pacific Electric was standard -- owned by and hooked into Southern Pacific.

[Philcal]

Streetcar gauge usually was standard (4ft-8 1/2 in) but that wasn't written in stone. Los Angeles Calif had both the Pacific Electric in standard gauge, and the Los Angeles Railway at 3ft 6in. The PE interchanged with, and was later a part of the Southern Pacific. In 1944 the Los Angeles Railway was sold to National City Lines, a bus company, but streetcar operation lasted until the creation of the Metropolitan Transit Authority. Philadephia Pa streetcars operate on a 5 ft. gauge, so you can see that it does vary some. A real high quality streetcar model in HO is pretty rare, although the Bachman offering(s) should serve your purposes. An operating streetcar line would be an asset to any layout.

[jrbarney]

Jecorbett,
You might want to consider the trolleys offered by Bowser :
http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/trolleys/trolleys.htm
Possibly, you'll find one similar to those you remember from your youth.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[jimrice4449]

The Bowser might be a good choice as they offer a variety. The down side is they come with brass wheels with all of the irritation that implies. A possible fix (I'm going to try it myself one of these days...really!!) is to get some proper size nickle silver wheels from NorthWest Short Line, cut the axles in half and replace the brass wheels (the Bowser geared wheels use the same split axle arrangement pioneered by Athearn)

[Jetrock]

The Bachmann streetcars are not the most faithful models around but they run surprisingly well. They would need quite a bit of modification in order to use actual trolley poles and overhead power, but it wouldn't be that much work--the MR series on O'Dell County Traction includes an article about how to convert Bachmann Brills for overhead use, as well as how to utilize one of those Bowsers.

And yes, generally streetcar companies did use standard-gauge. There were exceptions. LARY used 3'6" gauge because they were originally a cable-car line, and most cable cars used 3'6" gauge (the San Francisco cable cars still do--but the streetcars are standard gauge.) Some municipalities encouraged the streetcar company to use a non-standard gauge in order to avoid having freight trains running through urban areas on convenient standard-gauge track!

But no, generally standard gauge was the rule, which makes streetcar modeling much easier. There are plenty of other complex things aout being a trolley modeler, like live overhead and single-point turnouts...but let's not say too much, lest I inadvertently scare off a potential trolley modeler!

[rrandb]

I beleive it was the railroads that asked cities to require the street cars charters to stipulate that streetcars not be standard guage to prevent delivery of freight. Not all but some were guaged to be passenger only.

[DSchmitt]

Here is a site with a lot of info on HO streetcars:

http://trolleyville.com/trolleyville.shtml

This site has lots of useful products

http://home.earthlink.net/~traxx/

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

I beleive it was the railroads that asked cities to require the street cars charters to stipulate that streetcars not be standard guage to prevent delivery of freight. Not all but some were guaged to be passenger only.

There were a very few 3' gauge electric lines, and I believe it was Baltimore which had 5' gauge, but the vast majority of electric lines were standard gauge. Illinois, with possibly the most miles under wire anywhere in the USA (IT, SS, NS, CSL, CTA, IC, IP&L, PT, CA&E, and dozens of municipal lines) had only standard gauge lines.

Besides Bachmann and Bowser, also try LaBelle Woodworking, MRR Warehouse, IHC, Life Like (NYC El), and AMB. They all sell either body kits, mechanisms, or detail parts for electric modelers.

[Anonymous]

Just to add my [2c] I worked with the Fort Smith, AR Trolley Museum and all of our trolleys/street cars were standard guage (as they were in the early 1900s).

I'd like to add a street car to my future city scape, too. [:D]

Good luck to all and a happy new year.

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kansaspacific1

I don't know about other cities, but Kansas City Public Service (streetcar or trolley
system) had a couple of General Electric Freight motors (steeplecabs) which pulled
freight cars that interchanged with KCKV (Kansas City Kaw Valley) which interchanged with Santa Fe and Rock Island, so the track would have been standard gauge.

I read a book called Streetcars of Kansas City (not in quotes) that said Kansas City Public Service was formed from several streetcar operators. Some were horse drawn and not standard guage. One was an incline that went from the pre-UNION station in the bottoms and was broad gage. The Kansas Terminal Railway company that operated this station didnot want freight on this line. When the city took over they made everything standard. I could be wrong.

[dinwitty]

The issue for the Bachman trolley is minimum curve radius, maybe 12 inch minimum.
Streetcars can go down to 6 inch radius. The Bowsers can.
With some work you can get the bachmann to go sharper.

Prolly the most unique trolley line being narrow gauge 3 foot was a Boston line, originally ran 3 ft steamers with old time passenger cars around the early 1900's.
They electrified but used the same passenger cars and stuck motors and controllers and poles on them.

The cars were prety much standard gauge cars with 3 foot gauge trucks, so all you doubting thomases can now grab them old time cheapo tyco cars, use a NWSL flea and narrow gauge trucks and you got yerself an electrified interurban... sorta...
truther than truth.

[davekelly]

I think MRR once had an article on how to modify the Bachmann street car so that it could take sharper curves. It was one of those multi part series and might have been the O'Dell County Traction one, I'm just not sure. Perhaps the magazine index at the top of this site may help.

[Jetrock]

The minimum radius for the Bachmann Brill can be reduced to a reliable 8-9" or so just by removing the little Lucite "light pipe" for the headlights. You can get it down to 6" by shaving away the bits where the edges of the truck bump into the floor of the car, but it's kind of a delicate operation.