Looking for ideas on building a particular bridge....

[Anonymous]

Greetings and Salutations from the North West....[:)]

I'm going to be starting on my layout very soon and I'm running into a shortfall of information. I am loosely baseing it on a particular road and a particular bridge. This bridge is very large and it spans across the Columbia River here in Washington and connecting to Oregon. The bridge's name is the Celilo Bridge, a former SP&S (Oregon Trunk) bridge that's still very vital with the BNSF. Does anyone know of a good source for information or a source of bridge kits that I could use for this? I have no dimensional data at all and I've already sent e-mails to various railroad societies, historical societies and also to the BNSF itself. I've had a few pictures sent my way as well but, they lack the dimensional data that I need. Those of you who are not familiar with this particular bridge, it has a lift span at one end (The Oregon side of the Columbia River) and has 6 arched top steel girder bridges that lead up to the lift span itself. I've had a few suggestions from others that I've talked with and they ranged from "just use the Central Valley bridge" (Incorrect type for this application) to just scratch it.....that would be just "too fun "considering I have no plans!!! Please help....if you can!!! Thanks to you all.

A Frustrated Modeler,

John [banghead]

[Bikerdad]

Ahhh, you're looking in the wrong place. You're almost certainly going to have to scratchbuild it, or if you're lucky, kitbash. To get the sort of dimensions you want, you'll need to go to some bridge sites. There are a number of sites maintained by bridge enthusiasts on the web, and I think I've actually seen that bridge on one.

[jrbarney]

645Forever,
That is a lot of bridgework ! Have you tried the Spokane, Portland & Seattle Railway Historical Society ?:
http://www.spshs.org/
Perhaps you're going to have to research in the engineering journals for the period when the bridge was built. If you scratch build, you may want to look at the etched brass components from John Palecki Structures:
http://www.jpstructures.com
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bikerdad and Bob, I've already tried the SP&S society and it fell on the "don't have any answsers for ya" kinda category not to put them down or anything as I'm sure they got a lot of us train nuts asking for "wacked" information!!!. But I will try that model bridge site you forwarded to me, I've seen their ads in MR before and I thought that the likely hood was slim, but you know, it's worth a try at least!!! The BNSF contact referred me to a HS in Portland Ore. with the owner and it's been known to have good SP&S ties I guess, so I'll try that one as well. Thank you both for the effort and I'll keep you guys informed. The bridge societies...now I've heard of everything!!!! Do you have any info on them? I wouldn't have the slightest clue to look them up....

John

[Anonymous]

I just checked out jpstructures and they don't make a version of bridge that I can use...maybe down the road they'll come up with something but for now I'm still looking. I've noticed that there is a severe lack of arched type steel bridges..all seemed to be straight through rather than have a nice graceful arch...I saw OMI's and they want a lot of money for them, approximately $800 a pop and I need 6 of them!!!! Ouch...I don't think so!! Back to my search......

[jrbarney]

John,
I've just checked out both Cryer Gray Foundry:
http://www.cryergrayfoundry.com
and Three Brothers Manufacturing:
http://people.msoe.edu/~bakers/bridgemaster.html
and neither of them makes the bridges you're looking for. TBM uses Micro Engineering and Central Valley components and I think that is the path you may have to follow. I knew that John Palecki Structures didn't make your bridge, but thought his components were of interest, since they can be assembled with ACC and he has made a comment about offering his components:
"The survey has made me aware of your need for a variety of bridge types. Some future designs will be based on sets of beams that can be used on through and deck trusses, single and double track, straight and skew end bridges and even some length variations. As a plus for scratchbuilders, this new concept will also allow me to package beams or bracing as separate items for sale." My added emphasis.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

[wow] Wow! this is a cool bridge And it's part of the Wishram Yard's Wye! [8D]

This photo is from the yard looking toward the bridge.


This link is looking at the bridge itself


But wait ... it's not too complicated. You just need to break it down into its components. It's really just made of 8 Pratt Truss Bridges and a bunch of Deck Girder bridges. The second Pratt Truss can be raised vertically to allow boats to pass - a lift bridge. The approaches are all deck giders. So most of it is just a bunch of standard bridges either Pratt Truss or Deck Girder bridges

The tricky part is one side has the wye turnout so there's two legs. Kitbashing the deck giders should be fairly easy. And if you look through the magazine index I betcha you can find some info on lift bridges. And if I'm not mistaken isn't there something that you could modify from the Walters catalog?

You'll have to show this off to us when you're done.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Rich for the great BNSF shot, that's a new one on me. I've scanned over quite a few pictures on the "entire-net" to see what all was available and the BNSF shot I haven't seen before, the other one I have. The problem is though, is that the individual bridges are arched, where as all American protoype models are not. Like I said earlier the only arched type steel Pratt bridge is one imported by OMI although it's very nice, it's also very expensive and very unaffordable. The Deck bridges are of course a "shoe-in" for the Micro Engineering ones but everything else is gonna have to either built from scratch or adapted somehow from an existing kit. I'm currently toying with a couple of Central Valley kits but it is of a different type, it's a straight through rather than an arched type. Also the bridges on the SP&S are of a much heavier design than the CV bridge. It was made based on an SP prototype if I remember correctly. Thanks for the response and any ideas or suggestions are most welcome!!! Take care...

John

[Anonymous]

Well isn't that interesting the bridge is variation on a Pratt Truss. If you go here (http://pghbridges.com/basics.htm) you will notice that the bridges used at Celilo aren't quite Pratts. I'd say it's a Curved Chord Pratt.

Though you said you already did this, I looked around and only found one really good bridge but I betcha its the wrong scale (S) and not cheap (http://www.riverraisinmodels.com/pratt.html). It's a beauty.

The other one that might be a solution though not techincally correct would be the Atlas Curved Chord Bridges. They're cheap. [:D]

Otherwise you're spending money on a good bridge book, spending time scratch building. I hope you have a cool spot for it on the layout because it's a great feature.

I have the old Kalmbach Bridges & Buildings book from 1965. [:D] If you want send me a private email and I'll send you a scan of the Pratt Bridge pages.

Well I guess we'll have to wait to see what you come up with.

Good luck! [8D]

[Anonymous]

Thanks Rich for the Links. Yeah, I tend to agree with you, it looks like the River Raisin version would be an excellent substitute, very close but not quite on the money. Speaking of money, those aren't cheap either!!!! I have the Carstens book and yes I would like a photocopy of the bridge you're talking about. I think somewhere in my deep dark recesses of a library I believe I have a Kalmbach book that covers a variety of topics and subjects that does mention and decribe some various bridges. I vaguely remember a similar bridge like you mentioned in this book. Does it have a Bascule bridge in it as well? If it does have a "How to" on that one then I have the same book and no sense in forwarding it. Thanks for the offer.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Well John I think my copy is a bit older. This one does not have a Bascule bridge but a Rolling Lift bridge. It's got a John Allen cover photo. It's called Bridges & Buildings for Model Railroads It was edited by Willard Anderson. If you know who he is then we're in the same ballpark agewise [:D]

Now the chapter entitled Modern steel truss bridge might help you fomulate how you might construct the Pratt bridges. So send me an email (use my profile to get to me) and I'll send along a scan of the pertinent sections.