Sidings on switchbacks?

[cefinkjr]

Anyone know of a US prototype for a siding on a mountain climbing switchback? What I mean is essentially a double-tracked tail track where two trains could meet. And while we're thinking about switchbacks, how about stations anywhere (on or between tail tracks) on a switchback?

Thanks,
Chuck

[ndbprr]

Sure. Can't refer you to any pctures or sources but look into the Colroado narrow Gauge lines. Rio Grande Southern or one of the others had just such an arrangement somewhere out there. Also look for a copy of Kip Farringtons book Railroading around the World. It is long out of print but has several examples in South America also which were builkt by US engineers and to US practices.

[Anonymous]

Chuck --

I think the answer is "yes" with respect to passing sidings, but "no" as to whether a double-tracked tail track was used -- at least in the examples I've found.

The examples I have in mind are the NP's Stampede Pass switchback, used during 1887-88, and GN's Cascade switchbacks, used between 1893 and the opening of the first Cascade Tunnel in 1900.

There is a photo on p. 80 of Charles R. Wood's "The Northern Pacific: Mainstreet of the Northwest" showing what is described as the summit of the Stampede Pass switchback in 1887. There is what I interpret to be a short double-ended passing siding, but it doesn't parallel a tail track so much as it loops around one of the switchback turnouts. The text notes that trains over the pass were then limited to 5 cars (freight or passenger) and 2 locomotives (one at each end of the train). Accordingly, a long siding wasn't necessary. A small, gable-ended wooden structure, with a rudimentary platform, is seen close by the passing siding.

In Woods's "Lines West" there are also photos of the GN's switchback line. A couple of photos of Madison (later named Scenic) show what appears to be a customary passing siding, with depot and water tower alongside, but not located on a tailback. The water tank is right next to the siding, but the depot is located well up the hill from the tracks. There appears to be a wooden platform immediately in front of the depot, with a wooden railing on the side facing the tracks, and a long wooden staircase leading down to trackside.

You might be able to find more detailed information on these switchbacks from the NP and GN historical societies.

[MidlandPacific]

Wood's book on the GN (published by PFM, and now out of print, available at http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?qwork=2698556&wtopic=great%20northern&wauth=charles%20wood&ptit=The%20Great%20Northern%20Railway%20%3A%20a%20pictorial%20study&pauth=Wood%2C%20Charles%20Raymond%2C%20and%20Wood%2C%20Dorothy%20M%2E&pisbn=&pqty=13&pqtynew=0&pbest=63%2E88&matches=13&qsort=r) has a diagram of the GN's crossing of Stevens Pass by switchback that, if memory serves, includes a couple of sidings. The Silverton RR had a passing track on their switchback at Corkscrew Gulch, but instead of a switch at the farthest end, they had a turntable.

The Central Railroad of Peru, which was engineered by an American named Henry Meiggs, had complicated trackwork at switchbacks; there are a couple of British publications with great pictures - Brian Fawcett's "Steam in the Andes" is good, but out of print and very expensive for what you get (check alibris.com)

[johncolley]

Sounds more like a runaround than a passing siding, eh?

[Anonymous]

Runaround capability seems to be exactly the point.

I looked at the switchback photos of the Peruvian railways shown in Farrington's book, and sure enough, they've got the same arrangement shown on Stampede Pass. Not just a pair of side-by-side stub-ended spurs at the tail tracks, but double ended sidings that have one of their turnouts beyond the fouling point of the "switchback" turnout.

I suspect this was done to make runaround moves easier, if they ever were required. A pair of spurs can permit 2 trains to meet or pass on another without difficulty, but a runaround on such a trackage arrangement just ain't gonna happen without engines on both ends of the cut of cars to be run around.

[cefinkjr]

Thanks a bunch for the replies. This is one of those things that must have had a prototype but I couldn't recall any. I'm a free-lancer but I like to keep things at least a little believable.

I'm hatching an idea for a track plan that would need switchbacks to reach a point where the track would pass through a wall and almost immediately encounter a doorway into the room. Switchbacks would allow the track to be at least at a "nod under" height as it passes in front of the doorway; the rest of the track plan would be "no stoop".

Double tracking a tail track would be a cheap (one extra turnout) way of enabling trains to meet while negotiating the switchbacks. I had also thought about putting a spur to a mine or pulp wood loading off one of the tail tracks (to utilize a corner) so making it a runaround might be necessary.

Thanks again,
Chuck

[Anonymous]

Whilst it is not a US railroad, New South Wales Government Railway (NSWGR) (Australia) constructed a Zig Zag to cross the Blue Mountains. At top Points the ability to run around a train and trains cross was required. The section was replaced by a series of 10 Tunnels and the railway is now operated as a tourist venture with historic Steam and Railmotor trips running.
The link to the railway site is ozemail.com.au/~harburg/zzr.htm

[BRJN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

I'm hatching an idea for a track plan...I had also thought about putting a spur to a mine or pulp wood loading off one of the tail tracks (to utilize a corner)

How about a hunting or fishing lodge? The lake (or the trackless woods) could be painted on. Gets a short passenger train inbound on Friday afternoon, picks up the hunters / fishers again on Sunday about noontime to get home by nightfall.

It would be something a little different (although probably not a big money-maker).

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRJN

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

I'm hatching an idea for a track plan...I had also thought about putting a spur to a mine or pulp wood loading off one of the tail tracks (to utilize a corner)

How about a hunting or fishing lodge? The lake (or the trackless woods) could be painted on. Gets a short passenger train inbound on Friday afternoon, picks up the hunters / fishers again on Sunday about noontime to get home by nightfall.

It would be something a little different (although probably not a big money-maker).

You could make the spur long enough to park a business car or private car for the weekend. Just in case the accomodations at the lodge didn't prove adequate for the guests.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543