Milwaukee 'Little Joe'

[Anonymous]

I was looking through an ad in MR and saw that IHC had a GG1 loco in the Milwaukee paint scheme and they called it a 'Little Joe'. There is a real one on display about 40 miles from me and it doesnt look like the IHC one. I think it was either an E-70 or E-71. Anyway does any manufacturer make a 'Little Joe' or would I have to kitbash one? Also is the name 'Little Joe' specific for a type of engine or a generic term? By the way I am looking for one in HO scale.


Thanks,


John

[Anonymous]

As I understand it, this was a specific type of loco. They were originally intended to be shipped over to the USSR (hence "Little Joe" - Josef Stalin) but never made it for political reasons, at least, that's the story I heard. The Illinois Railway Museum has one of these locos and if you search through the online issues of their in-house magazine (Rail and Wire) they have an article about repainting it with a little history. Hope this is of some help!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info Railroading_Brit. The plaque that they have with the one I saw said that they did serve in Russia for awhile but were brought back to this country and Milwaukee RR used them. I will serach the site for the into.


Thanks!

John

[ndbprr]

There is a vast difference including the wheel arrangements BUT in their neverending pusuit -of sales IHC has foisted GG1's for Miwaukee Road and Virginian which is a travesty in thsi day and age.

[Anonymous]

I agree completely with you ndbprr. The GG1 looks nothing like the Little Joe, maybe they thought that since they were both electric, who knows. I know that I wont be buying any of the IHC locos anyway.



John

[Anonymous]

"Little Joe" models haven't been produced in plastic so far, but they have been done in several runs over the years in brass by Alco, North West Short Line and Overland in HO scale.

[Anonymous]

those brass locos I would think are maybe a little spendy and hard to come by? So maybe I will try my hand a kit bashing them. Thanks for the info fiverings!


John

[Morpar]

I have been thinking about this 'bash for quite some time. Seems a person could go about it a couple of different ways. The first would be to use the GG-1 mechanism as-is, and make a shorter than prototype body from a pair of F-unit shells. I just don't know if this would look too "chopped down" and ruin the styling of real thing or not. The other option woud be to use 2 GG-1 chassis, splice in the extra driver on each "truck", and then make the body from 2 F-unit shells. I know I have seen that some of the model GG-1's only have one set of drivers powered, so this method would get both sets powered. I don't know if these current IHC models are like that or not, so it would bear looking into. Somewhere I have scale drawings from the August 1969 RMC magazine for the Milwaukee Road Little Joes. They were also used into the 1980's on the South Shore line in northern Indiana. Trains had an article on these in the 80's, and I have it somewhere also.

[ndbprr]

The current IHC offering is by Mehano and is an excellent locomotive. IT has one or two motors in the premier line and they both have the same number but they can be had on Ebay for about $25-40 depending on the bidding. Occasionaly IHC has sales on the net wherte the can be had for about $56 with a warranty. I did the two F7 shell conversion of an extra GG1 mechanism I had. It comes out more like a New Haven EP3 as the sides and roof aren't right as well as the slope of the nose. Since the GN did convert one of the boxcabs to EMD cabs after an accident that might be a better conversion.

[Anonymous]

The Milwaukee also rebuilt the carbody of "Little Joe" E78 with EMD components following a roll-over accident.

[johncolley]

Actually, the Soviet Union ordered either 15 or 17 units for their 5' guage. After the first few (5?) were delivered the Political situation soured to the point that our State Department voided the order and the rest of the units under construction were modified to our standard guage trucks, went to various railroads here. The first ones the the Milwaukee Road got were much too light for the job and they ended up adding a lot of weight in the frame and carbody to improve traction, plus they had to build up the roof top to raise the pantograph height 3 to 5 feet.

[Leon Silverman]

Here's a possibility for BLI or some other adventurous manufacturer. Both the "Little Joe" and the Baldwin Centipede use the same wheen arrangement. Would it be possible to use the same chassis for both models by using different shells?

[dknelson]

Little Joes went to the Milwaukee Road, the South Shore (which is where the Illinois RR Museum got theirs) and a railroad in Brazil that used, I think, the original 5 foot gauge. As I advised another poster asking about boxcab electrics, you might want to investigate what the Walthers catalog shows for foreign locomotives for the running gear rather than try to modify the GG1 running gear -- they are not very similar. I wonder if the noses from the P2K DL109 would be closer to the Joe than an EMD? Just a thought.
Dave Nelson

[badyin macfadyin]

Miami Trains carries a Brazilian made EP-4, which is similar, by Frateschi. About$90.
http://www.frateschi.com.br/produtos/v8_eng.php

[jimrice4449]

Any kit bash using f-7 shells would be a real project, even if you modeled the E-78. There's muy mucho changes you'd have to make on the roof and the Milw used pantographs that were slightly different from evrybody else's (of course!).
Follow my lead and wait for the BLI version which is bound to come along eventually.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Just to keep things interesting, some of the five Joes that went to Paulista in Brazil were re-equipped with Faiveley (single-arm) pantographs. The Paulista is 5' 3" gauge.

A total of 20 Little Joes were built, 12 to MILW, 3 to South Shore and 5 to Paulista.