Anyone have knowledge/educated guess as to how many coacheswould a single E unit would generally haul in in daily commuter service in the Northeast in the late 1940s through the 1950s?
Is this the answer you require?
The History of Burlington Northern E's in Commuter Service - HubPages
At first eight coaches because of platform length. Increasing vto 9,10, 11 by 1950s.
David
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NorthBrit Is this the answer you require? The History of Burlington Northern E's in Commuter Service - HubPages At first eight coaches because of platform length. Increasing vto 9,10, 11 by 1950s. David
Rich
Alton Junction
I wonder what commuter lines even used E Units in the north east, about all I can think of is the PRR's NYLB lines and maybe NJDOT.
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dehusman I wonder what commuter lines even used E Units in the north east, about all I can think of is the PRR's NYLB lines and maybe NJDOT.
A commuter railroad in the Northeast in the 1940s and 1950s that used E-units to haul coaches, and how many coaches were in the consist?
I can see the problem. After digging a little bit I see that most ran Fs, GPs and other smaller engines on their commuter trains.
I guess a better way to ask would be how many passenger cars would a single E unit haul before a rail road would deem it necessary to add a second because of weight?
I've read where a lot of times they would add a second with cab style engines if there was no way to turn them so they could run around their cars to hook up on the opposite end to reverse direction.
Rumpelhardt I can see the problem. After digging a little bit I see that most ran Fs, GPs and other smaller engines on their commuter trains. I guess a better way to ask would be how many passenger cars would a single E unit haul before a rail road would deem it necessary to add a second because of weight? I've read where a lot of times they would add a second with cab style engines if there was no way to turn them so they could run around their cars to hook up on the opposite end to reverse direction.
richhotrain Well, then I would go back to North Brit's link. The BN E-unit was pulling 8 coaches. Modern day commuter services typically haul 8 coaches as well, particularly during busy hours. Rich
Well, then I would go back to North Brit's link. The BN E-unit was pulling 8 coaches. Modern day commuter services typically haul 8 coaches as well, particularly during busy hours.
The OP is concerned about the number of coach cars that an E-unit can pull before adding a second loco due to weight considerations. He still needs an answer to that question.
Platform length is an interesting consideration. Back in the day, the Santa Fe Super Chief, for example, was an ABBA consist of four F7 locomotives pulling as many as 17 passenger cars.
The platforms at Dearborn Station in Chicago were much too short to accommodate 17 cars, some passengers had to walk forward through a series of cars more toward the front of the train. Sometimes, the passenger car consist would be broken into groups on two separate tracks.
Rich. My mistake and apologise.
As for length of platforms we have the same challenge here in the U.K.. Having to walk through carriages before being able to get off.
NorthBrit Rich. My mistake and apologise. As for length of platforms we have the same challenge here in the U.K.. Having to walk through carriages before being able to get off. David
dehusmanI wonder what commuter lines even used E Units in the north east
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I presume that Boston is in the NE US. And yes, I realise that the photo is dated 1960 not the late 40s, early 50s. https://www.railarchive.net/nyccollection/nyc4053.htm Cheers, the Bear.
Rumpelhardt Anyone have knowledge/educated guess as to how many coacheswould a single E unit would generally haul in in daily commuter service in the Northeast in the late 1940s through the 1950s?
Remember that most of the commuter services that used E units only got them 'secondhand' as the long-distance passenger trains came off. One unfortunately frequent issue with these was that they weren't in the best shape, and prior to Government money they were likely to be far down on the maintenance priority list.
I was too late to see short NYC (or PRR) trains longer than 5 cars with a single E. I had the impression (probably from reading Trains) that many railroads operated E units in pairs because of the risk of road failure (not all problems being from one deflicted prime mover or generator...)
"Standard' power on the Long Branch (at the change in Perth Amboy) was back-to-back E units. I regret that I can't remember if some of the off-peak trains through Manasquan in the early '60s (when E7s could be seen as well as Baldwin BP units) were short enough for just one engine.
Erie-Lackawanna in the early '70s famously ran first-generation ex-ATSF Budd coaches (1937 irrc!) behind E8s, on the Pascack Valley line, but I never remember seeing anything but doubleheaded engines in that service.
I remember, vaguely, some discussions about short-term rating of E7 and E8 where fast repeated acceleration was expected, with the figure of 6 cars per locomotive mentioned. This might be compared with Amtrak's rating for adding cars to trains, for four-motor locomotives with far more traction hp nominally available.
Here in the Chicago area the cnw ran quite a few passenger(commuter) trains with a e unit either a 7 or 8 with quite a few cars not sure but maybe 8 cars They also ran funits also.
Mike
I doubt E units would have been used on commuter runs that early. They were road power and still relatively new in that time frame. Funits would have been better for keeping a schedule as the weight per axle was higher with four wheel trucks. The center axle on Eunits was unpowered and gave better tracking and riding qualities at speed.
Doubt all you want but it does not change the fact that I saw them.
richhotrain NorthBrit Is this the answer you require? The History of Burlington Northern E's in Commuter Service - HubPages At first eight coaches because of platform length. Increasing vto 9,10, 11 by 1950s. David That may not be of much help since the BN never ran east of Chicago. He is looking for commuter trains that ran in the Northeast. Rich
That may not be of much help since the BN never ran east of Chicago. He is looking for commuter trains that ran in the Northeast.
In my reading of the original post, the OP isn't asking how many cars a particular railroad's E units pulled in commuter service in the Northeast, but more like how many cars could an E unit pull in commuter service. So referencing BN's commuter service is appropriate. Unless the eastern area is hilly or semi-mountainous where grades would affect pulling ability, any E unit would be able to pull the same number of cars as any others, east, west or midwest.
Stix, I need to correct you on a few points.
First, I didn't say that the link was inappropriate. I said that it may not help much.
Second, if you read through the entire thread, the OP's initial question was, how many coaches would a single E unit generally haul in daily commuter service in the Northeast.
Rumpelhardt I guess a better way to ask would be how many passenger cars would a single E unit haul before a rail road would deem it necessary to add a second because of weight?
wjstix richhotrain NorthBrit Is this the answer you require? The History of Burlington Northern E's in Commuter Service - HubPages At first eight coaches because of platform length. Increasing vto 9,10, 11 by 1950s. David That may not be of much help since the BN never ran east of Chicago. He is looking for commuter trains that ran in the Northeast. Rich In my reading of the original post, the OP isn't asking how many cars a particular railroad's E units pulled in commuter service in the Northeast, but more like how many cars could an E unit pull in commuter service. So referencing BN's commuter service is appropriate. Unless the eastern area is hilly or semi-mountainous where grades would affect pulling ability, any E unit would be able to pull the same number of cars as any others, east, west or midwest.
So your are now a mind reader in spite of the OP's own words?
Sheldon
Passenger train locomotive requirements often take into consideration the necessary acceleration rates to maintain the schedule.
6-8 cars, depending on their weight/construction would likely be the practical limit for quick acceleration in relatively flat terrain for a single E unit.
The B&O was a big user of E units, but not so much for commuter or local service. And the B&O had heavy passenger cars, with much of their fleet being home shop rebuilds of heavyweight cars into what looked like smooth side streamlined cars.
E units are not great on grades, they only have four traction motors and 1/3 of their weight is on idler axles. They were geared and designed for speed and smooth running.
Yet many roads used them in mountainous regions - they simply used more of them. I have photos of three and four E units pulling B&O trains in the 12-16 car range.
As other have noted, on level track, with modern lightweight cars, a single E unit would likely handle 12 cars with little issue, except maybe not being a sprinter off the line.
Roads like the B&O had to consider grades (stopping, starting and holding the train still on those grades), break downs, and keeping schedules when powering passenger trains. Available steam heat in the winter was another issue. More boilers is redundant security.
No wonder a great many passenger trains were "over powered" on many railroads.
I can't speak for others cities, on the B&O, or other roads, but Baltimore has never been a "commuter rail city" like some others. To this day, Baltimore only has three rail commuter corridors, Commuter rail on the Amtrak Northeast corridor, a north-south light rail system, and a single elevated/ground/subway route from the northwest suburbs into downtown.
Not a city where you can get around without a car - the bus service is questionable at best.
The B&O provided more "short hall" locals than typical "commuter" service. For that they used GP7's mostly and later RDC's. In fact, the B&O used RDC's for some pretty long runs - the Daylight Speedliner which ran from Baltimore to Pittsburgh via Washington DC.
There was/is no "hub and spoke" rail network in Baltimore, most of the major lines of all railroads enter/leave the city in the northeast and southwest, so only those corridors presented opportunities for commuter service.
While I know there are some exceptions, and in the '70s/'80s struggling rail service used what they had, but in the '40s/'50s period mentioned by the OP, I seriously doubt that the EMD E unit would be a first choice for commuter train power.
So I know this is way more than the OP asked, but from what I know, you simply would not have found many commuter trains pulled by E units in the 40's or 50's.