There are lots Rivarossi Blue Geese for sale on ebay. Here's a good picture of one.
AHM/Rivarossi Blue Goose Santa Fe 4-6-4 Hudson 3460 HO scale. | eBay
My question is about the vertical black pipes on the pilot. I've looked at dozens of pictures of the prototype and these pipes are not visible in any of them. Does anyone know what these were and if the Blue Goose ever had them? I'm wondering if these might have been flag poles indicating the train was running in multiple sections.
The reason I ask is I have one that I am considering putting up for sale on ebay but these are missing. It's been over 30 years since I ran mine on a layout although I recently ran it on a test track and it still runs well. I can't remember if these pipes got knocked off or if I removed them because I didn't think they were prototypical. If I am right that these were not on the real Blue Goose, it seems to me it shouldn't devalue the loco because it doesn't have that feature.
While not seeing your photo, I'll take a stab at the black pipes question.
John-NYBWI'm wondering if these might have been flag poles indicating the train was running in multiple sections.
I believe Rivarossi was trying to replicate the small flag stanchions the original engine had on the pilot. Broadway Limited and MTH both got these a little smaller on their model but still way oversized. It looks to me like the actual flag stanchions were about ten to twelve inches tall.
The flag stanchions weren't related to the classification lights, which are built in to the shroud on either side of the front air "scoop" for the smoke lifter. The flag stanchions are probably an anachronism from the "early days" and many did also have marker light brackets incorporated into them so that IF the locomotive were ever run backwards at night, lighted red markers could be attached here, or red flags by day in the stanchions.
They show up in a few of the photos represented here.
Good Luck, Ed
I forgot to include the link to the ebay photo. I've corrected that. It sounds like my guess that they were for flags might have been correct. Am I also correct that if a passenger train ran in sections, it would have flags indicating there are one or more sections behind it or is there another way that is indicated? I believe the engine was assigned to one leg of The Chief which I believe frequently ran in sections.
I wonder why they chose robin's egg blue. How cool would it have been had they painted it in the warbonnet scheme.
John-NYBWAm I also correct that if a passenger train ran in sections, it would have flags indicating there are one or more sections behind it or is there another way that is indicated?
You are correct that former rules for section following required display of green flags by day and green lamps by night. I'm not familiar with ATSF rules but I believe some roads simply allowed the green lights both day and night and dispensed with the flags. As I mentioned in my first reply the classification lights here are built in to the shrouding on either side of that grille.
I don't recall ever seeing white or green flags displayed on the pilot beam flag holders. Only in upper mounts usually near the number boards or headlight.
A photo on this page shows (white?) flags mounted just behind the class lights:
https://www.bonanza.com/items/like/311164391/Santa-Fe-Steam-Locomotive-Blue-Goose-3460-Photo-ATSF-Art-deco-railroad-train
Thank for the info, Ed. It seems I am correct that those missing flag stanchions were atypical on the Goose. If it ever had them, they were rare. Not having them on my Rivarossi version shouldn't devalue them much.
I'm hoping to get at least $150 for mine. If I can't get more than that for my Goose, I think I'll just hang onto it, pizza cutter flanges and all.
Coincidentally, see page 12 of the January Model Railroader magazine, print edition.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley Coincidentally, see page 12 of the January Model Railroader magazine, print edition.
I just got my January issue in the mail today. I see what you mean. That's a real nice looking Blue Goose but what a price ($899 MSRP). I no longer model western railroads but if I did, I don't think I'd ever spring for that much for any loco. I did notice it doesn't come with the flag stanchions that were on the Rivarossi model. I wonder why Rivarossi bothered with that given there are so few pictures of the Blue Goose that show them. In fact, I haven't seen any that had the flag stanchions on the pilot. I can't remember whether I removed them or they just came off and got lost but they really don't belong there.
The long black stanchions on the Rivarossi Blue Goose are obviously wrong. However, the loco appeared to have shorter, silvery "poles" on the front deck, at least part of the time. You can actually see them on the pic in the January MR issue. When you go to brasstrains.com, both the Tenshodo and the $2195 PSC model have them (Interestingly, the pics of the Tenshodo Blue Goose show only one of them, on the engineer's side; the other one must have been broken off.).
In some pics of the prototype, these poles seem to be absent. On others, they are clearly visible. Worley's "Horses of the Santa Fe Trail" has three pics where you can clearly see them. What I found most interesting was a pic where the engine was on her way to a weighing-in, and some dark (b/w pic) diamond flags were attached to the poles.
John-NYBWI did notice it doesn't come with the flag stanchions that were on the Rivarossi model.
ATSF_pilot-flag by Edmund, on Flickr
John-NYBW I wonder why Rivarossi bothered with that given there are so few pictures of the Blue Goose that show them. In fact, I haven't seen any that had the flag stanchions on the pilot.
ATSF_pilot-flag-2 by Edmund, on Flickr
I see flag stanchion/marker bracket, or at least a shadow of them, in every photo I've seen so far. The above capture is from the video I posted earlier.
Cheers, Ed