Odd one for the group: Would one find channel markers in a car ferry harbor (or harbour for those with a British English background)? Found a listing that piqued my curiosity.
As usual, thank you for any assistance that can be provided.
Do you mean the red and green marker buoys? Yes. Remember Red Right Return.
Pete.
Like everything in life it depends I would think. A ferry crossing a river at 90 degrees to the flow probably does not as ferries are very shallow draft ships. In addition having made the trip 20 or more times a day I would expect the captain to know his passage route very well. Now if we are talking European ferries that are sea going and traveling into ports i would say absolutely. The only US ferry I know of that is fitting that description is the lake Michigan car ferry between Ludington Michigan and Manitowac Wisconsin and yes there are channel markers
ndbprrThe only US ferry I know of that is fitting that description is the lake Michigan car ferry between Ludington Michigan and Manitowac Wisconsin and yes there are cha
The Badger car ferry has a draft of 18' 6" by the way. Although meant for small boaters you might find this online booklet regarding the Manitowoc (WI) harbor of interest.
14922_BookletChart.pdf (noaa.gov)
https://www.charts.noaa.gov/BookletChart/14922_BookletChart.pdf
Dave Nelson
What I have on my layout layout is a lake with a railroad car ferry (single track). Not exactly prototypical but I liked the idea. Sounds like I probably wouldn't need them.
Nantucket and Martha's vineyard ferries in and out of Woods Hole, Hyannis and Boston all have chanel markers. About ten years ago the Nantucket ferry missed the chanel marker and ran full speed into the break wall injuring quite a few people and about a million dollars in damage. Clear night and experienced captain. The coast guard investigation is still ongoing. How they were way off course was never explained.
Pete
In addition to the Lake Michigan carferry (no longer carrying rail cars) there is the New York Cross Harbor rail car ferry, and the Alaska rail car ferries. I would guess that all those harbors involve channel markers.
The rule is Red Right Returning - so coming into port, the red aids to navigation (buoys, day marks, etc) should be to starbord and the black ones to port. For a thorough thrashing on the subject
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/lightLists/ATON%20Plates.pdf
BEAUSABRE The rule is Red Right Returning - so coming into port, the red aids to navigation (buoys, day marks, etc) should be to starbord and the black ones to port. For a thorough thrashing on the subject https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/lightLists/ATON%20Plates.pdf
I look at that document and I'm completely confused. I have no idea if that would apply to a western lake or not. I also have a challenge figuring out colors. There is also a river that flows into the lake from the east (left on the layout).
Black? All the channel markers I have seen were/are red and green. How would you light a black marker in the harbor entrance? They really help bringing the boat in at night. Especially when the other boaters have spent a long day beaching and fishing with a few cold ones.
The rules regarding lakes are red right return for the creeks and rivers and the channels to them so they are independent of the lake. No matter which way you would turn as you face the source they are red right return.
Same for ocean going vessels. The CG boating course instructor had a good saying. The green marker on the right leaving the docks means a green light to go. And red right return to stop the trip. It amazes me how many people with boats don't know that or ignores it. They also ignore the no wake signs and come hauling but back to the docks.
I ended up buying the markers in question. When they get assembled and added to the lake is another question.
One other question: How deep should the markers dip into the water? I will have to cut into the coating so I need to know how deep. (Gloss medium so it shouldn't be too hard.)
Let me rephrase my previous question: In normal use where should the water line be on the base of the marker?
It's been a few years since I have boated. I'm working from memory of something that I have seen many times but didn't really think about.
There are different sizes of buoy bodies and length of flag pole. Harbor entrances are lighted with what can be described as a large Coleman lantern with red and green glass. On top is the flag pole with usually worn, torn and ratty looking colored flag. Larger harbors with larger vessels have about a six foot diameter cylindrical shape buoy, lighted lamp about three feet around and a flag pole about eight feet long. From the water surface to the top of the flag pole I would guess to be 18 to 20 feet. The smaller harbors have smaller buoys. Usually about 3 feet in diameter.
The non lighted markers look like a cylinder shape with a three or four foot flag pole. Some have reflectors on them.
Hope this answers your questions.
wrench567 It's been a few years since I have boated. I'm working from memory of something that I have seen many times but didn't really think about. There are different sizes of buoy bodies and length of flag pole. Harbor entrances are lighted with what can be described as a large Coleman lantern with red and green glass. On top is the flag pole with usually worn, torn and ratty looking colored flag. Larger harbors with larger vessels have about a six foot diameter cylindrical shape buoy, lighted lamp about three feet around and a flag pole about eight feet long. From the water surface to the top of the flag pole I would guess to be 18 to 20 feet. The smaller harbors have smaller buoys. Usually about 3 feet in diameter. The non lighted markers look like a cylinder shape with a three or four foot flag pole. Some have reflectors on them. Hope this answers your questions. Pete.
I'll have to see what the kit looks like when I get it as to the size. The plan is to install bi-color LEDs for the red and green lights to lights.
How far out would the marker bouys be from the dock? For most of us, the layout ends at the water's edge. I model a small amount of water around my carfloat, but probably no more than ten or twenty scale feet.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
wrench567 Black? All the channel markers I have seen were/are red and green. How would you light a black marker in the harbor entrance? They really help bringing the boat in at night. Especially when the other boaters have spent a long day beaching and fishing with a few cold ones. Pete.
Finally got an answer on the black/green question. According to the instructions for the buoys, which came yesterday from the time I'm posting this, before 1983 the buoys were black or red depending on sides of the channel. (As I model the 70s into mid 1980, I would need a black marker.)
Therefore I presume black would be the same as green as to position. The question then becomes what color would the light be on a black buoy?
Another one, slightly OT but related with the kit. What's the best adhesive for gluing polyurethane parts?
You'll like this answer: it depends (on the depth of the water where the marker is). If water is shallow enough pole markers are used. These are telephone poles driven into the bottom with either a square board with an odd number (green) or a triangle board (red) with an even number.
Pole markers are much preferred to anchored bouys. Pole markers are visible from greater distances and cost much less labor to maintain. For bouys, they are usually can shaped (black or green) or upside-down cone shape (red, pointy end up). Large bouys at the channel entrance can be the traditional shaped bouy in all 3 colors.
Both pole markers and bouys can have flashing lights - if the channel is used at night. Usually green and red markerys will have flashing green and red lights respectively. Occasionally flashing white lights will be used - but these are more difficult to pick out against the lights on shore.
35 years in the Coast Guard (CG maintains aids to navigation)
Where there is commercial traffic on inland lakes, most states try to do similar to what the CG does. Any lake that crosses state lines goes by CG rules. Without commercial traffic, a system of white and orange markers are usually used (if there are any markers at all).
Fred W
Black? All the channel markers I have seen were/are red and green. How would you light a black marker in the harbor entrance? They really help bringing the boat in at night. Especially when the other boaters have spent a long day beaching and fishing with a few cold ones. Finally got an answer on the black/green question. According to the instructions for the buoys, which came yesterday from the time I'm posting this, before 1983 the buoys were black or red depending on sides of the channel. (As I model the 70s into mid 1980, I would need a black marker.) Therefore I presume black would be the same as green as to position. The question then becomes what color would the light be on a black buoy?
Before 1983, buoys were black/red, and pole markers were green/red. Black buoys had either flashing green or flashing white lights. White lights were generally reserved for channel entrances and junctions, where a black buoy (sometimes black and red or black and white) would mark the center of the channel.
Range markers and lights - used a lot in the Pacific NW - consist of 2 land mounted markers with vertical stripes, located horizontally apart from each other. When the 2 stripes were lined up, the ship was in the center of the channel. If lighted, range markers had their flashes synchronized to flash at the same time. The channel into Coos Bay, Oregon (world's biggest lumber port at the time) had 3 sets of range markers in the 1970s. A commercial operation on a lake would probably tend to favor a range setup over buoys or pole markers if the channel was narrow and/or significant cross winds expected.
fwright Where there is commercial traffic on inland lakes, most states try to do similar to what the CG does. ... Without commercial traffic, a system of white and orange markers are usually used (if there are any markers at all).
Where there is commercial traffic on inland lakes, most states try to do similar to what the CG does. ... Without commercial traffic, a system of white and orange markers are usually used (if there are any markers at all).
Then the next question becomes, would equipment from a privately-owned terminal railroad be considered commercial traffic?
If any type of revenue is generated then yes it's commercial.