I run a daily mail train in both directions on my layout. The typical consist is two or three express boxcars, an RPO, two or three baggage express cars, and a coach. Pictures I've seen tell me the express box cars should be right behind the loco and the coach at the end. My question is where should the RPO be placed. I've seen pictures of RPOs right behind the express box cars but I thought I read somewhere that the RPO would be placed in between the baggage express cars to make it easier to move sacks of sorted mail into the appropriate car. Which is correct or is either way correct?
As usual it depends. If a class one rr mail train itcould be anything. It could be running cars that are all from one major city to another major city. It could also pick up cars from major cities for one destination city or also set off cars for intermediate cities that could require backing into a siding or picking up requiring the cars to be on the rear. Cars to be worked in route would require access and could be either side of the rpo. Whatever line you are modeling you need some PRR B60B cars as they went all over the country carrying magazines from publishers. They were always filthy as they were cut off of trains and delivered before the train went through car washers. My reading indicates the rpo workers preferred to be toward the back of a train in case of a wreck. They had a higher chance of survival that way. Some trains were all stops in that they picked up and set off Mail with a mail catcher on the side of the car and throwing out sacks from the door for delivery
John-NYBW I run a daily mail train in both directions on my layout. The typical consist is two or three express boxcars, an RPO, two or three baggage express cars, and a coach. Pictures I've seen tell me the express box cars should be right behind the loco and the coach at the end. My question is where should the RPO be placed. I've seen pictures of RPOs right behind the express box cars but I thought I read somewhere that the RPO would be placed in between the baggage express cars to make it easier to move sacks of sorted mail into the appropriate car. Which is correct or is either way correct?
I run a daily mail train in both directions on my layout. The typical consist is two or three express boxcars, an RPO, two or three baggage express cars, and a coach. Pictures I've seen tell me the express box cars should be right behind the loco and the coach at the end. My question is where should the RPO be placed. I've seen pictures of RPOs right behind the express box cars but I thought I read somewhere that the RPO would be placed in between the baggage express cars to make it easier to move sacks of sorted mail into the appropriate car.
Which is correct or is either way correct?
There is a book I recommend on this matter (if you can find a copy):
Edward M. DeRouin's "Moving Mail and Express by Rail"
It's got lotsa consists and lots of explaining inside.
I do believe that, if various baggage and express cars were going to be loaded and unloaded enroute, that those cars would be placed near the RPO car. Stands to reason, as they say. Also, if cars were added and/or subtracted, I suspect they'd be more to the rear.
I think the Post Office did not approve of mixing US mail with anything else, such as express or LCL. So I suspect that bagged mail would be loaded into the non-sorting area of the RPO car.
USPO had very strong and enforceable opinions on how mail was to be handled.
Ed
ndbprr Whatever line you are modeling you need some PRR B60B cars as they went all over the country carrying magazines from publishers.
Whatever line you are modeling you need some PRR B60B cars as they went all over the country carrying magazines from publishers.
Absolutely. Two other very common cars were the CB&Q ex-troop kitchen cars (there were 300--plenty to go around) and 60' NYC baggage cars.
The former's been done in affordable plastic. It would be great if the NYC cars were, too.
7j43k John-NYBW I run a daily mail train in both directions on my layout. The typical consist is two or three express boxcars, an RPO, two or three baggage express cars, and a coach. Pictures I've seen tell me the express box cars should be right behind the loco and the coach at the end. My question is where should the RPO be placed. I've seen pictures of RPOs right behind the express box cars but I thought I read somewhere that the RPO would be placed in between the baggage express cars to make it easier to move sacks of sorted mail into the appropriate car. Which is correct or is either way correct? There is a book I recommend on this matter (if you can find a copy): Edward M. DeRouin's "Moving Mail and Express by Rail" It's got lotsa consists and lots of explaining inside. I do believe that, if various baggage and express cars were going to be loaded and unloaded enroute, that those cars would be placed near the RPO car. Stands to reason, as they say. Also, if cars were added and/or subtracted, I suspect they'd be more to the rear. I think the Post Office did not approve of mixing US mail with anything else, such as express or LCL. So I suspect that bagged mail would be loaded into the non-sorting area of the RPO car. USPO had very strong and enforceable opinions on how mail was to be handled. Ed
I'm going on memory which might not be reliable, but my understanding was that the mail was sorted and bagged in the RPO and that sorted bagged mail would then be moved to an adjacent baggage car dedicated for US Mail. They might also bring unsorted bags of mail into the RPO to be sorted by route. I'm not positive of any of this, but that's how I remember it.
7j43k ndbprr Whatever line you are modeling you need some PRR B60B cars as they went all over the country carrying magazines from publishers. Absolutely. Two other very common cars were the CB&Q ex-troop kitchen cars (there were 300--plenty to go around) and 60' NYC baggage cars. The former's been done in affordable plastic. It would be great if the NYC cars were, too. Ed
I have both types of cars and they do see service in my mail train. I'll have to look into those PRR B60B cars.
I have lots of express box cars and baggage/express cars that I've collected for mail train duty. At one time I would run them all in a single train which would get quite long but I discovered that it was hogging a lot of staging track space and the longer trains were more prone to derailments. I've trimmed it back and try to keep it at 6-7 cars now and fiddle the consist in the staging yard.
John-NYBW I'm going on memory which might not be reliable, but my understanding was that the mail was sorted and bagged in the RPO and that sorted bagged mail would then be moved to an adjacent baggage car dedicated for US Mail. They might also bring unsorted bags of mail into the RPO to be sorted by route. I'm not positive of any of this, but that's how I remember it.
I can imagine that happening if there was a 60' long car with a 60' mail apartment. For cars with 30' and 15', there'd be room for bagged mail (to be sorted) in the rest of the car. With the smaller apartments, I assume there'd be less mail to sort, too.
But I can certainly see it for the 60 footers.
I believe some mail was loaded that was NOT to be sorted--sealed bags. Clearly those could go into a storage mail car, as is.
I came upon another book on the subject:
Jeff Wilson's "Express, Mail & Merchandise Service"
It's a lot more available than that other one, though there are no consists in it.
Interestingly, for awhile this was a very common express car on the SP&S (mid forties):
You can have a lot of different moves going on in one of those trains.
There can be express, which is NOT USPO business and would be moved in cars (baggage, reefers or boxcars) separate from USPO business.
There are mail storage cars that carry presorted mail going from one post office to another post office, that doesn't have to be sorted on the train. Those will be baggage cars or boxcars separate from the express.
There can be cars of mail to be sorted and empty cars to recieve the sorted mail.
There can be the RPO's that will do the sorting.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Another PRR car used on what was called mail storage on the PRR for almost dedicated service was the X29 box car. I used to ride the Duequesne that originated in Pittsburgh and ran to New York . It always had 15 to 20 cars of mail coming from Chicago, st Louis, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Altoona and Harrisburg bound for New York. When I rode it from Lancaster to Philly in the 60s it was always 2 hours late getting to Lancaster. It seemed like the GG1 was halfway to Philly before the coach's would stop at the station.
ndbprr Another PRR car used on what was called mail storage on the PRR for almost dedicated service was the X29 box car.
Another PRR car used on what was called mail storage on the PRR for almost dedicated service was the X29 box car.
Those would have been passenger equipped, which most X29's were not.
Red Caboose/Intermountain has done their X29's in passenger, though they're hard to find. One part number is RR-37203. I think these models generally have Railway Express Agency lettering on the sides.
This site
http://santafe.gmbus.com/
has the consists of most of the important Santa Fe trains, including the Fast Mail, from the 40s to the 60s. The Fast Mail seemed to have the RPO usually somewhere in the middle, surrounded by mail storage cars. Express cars could be found either before the mail section or afterward, with the coach for passenger service bringing up the rear.
September 1967 brought a truly sad Fast Mail consist. At that time the contract with the US mail had expired. Thus, the Fast Mail was reduced to the coach. Somewhere in my book collection there is a pic of this train: A PA1 and a single heavyweight coach.
7j43kThose would have been passenger equipped, which most X29's were not.
This one was....
...even though the steam connections have been removed. This car also has high-speed trucks, with locking centre pins.
I used its details, and the owner's knowledge of it, to build three models of it, for myself, a friend, and another friend who was, at the time, in charge of the road and the main engineer.This one was built for the friend who models the mid-'50s...
...this one for the engineer friend, who models the mid-to-late '40s...
...and this one for my late '30s layout...
...all three have re-weigh dates appropriate for their era. The car's number used on the models was stenciled on the inside of the prototype's doors.
Wayne
My mail train will be pulled by this light USRA 4-6-2.
It will have an express refrigerator and two express boxcars.
One RPO.
And an observation car.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
7j43kInterestingly, for awhile this was a very common express car on the SP&S (mid forties):
Well, now you're singin' my song, Ed. I'd like to know more about this car.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
I don't know much about the real one.
The model is a Walthers.
CNJ had some X-29 clones equipped for express service that were painted green with gold lettering instead of the boxcar red with white their freight service brethren and sistern sported
https://charlesro-com.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/L83562.jpg.
Maybe a distinctive paint scheme for your express boxes might be in order
Here's a prototype photo of that same car:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnj/cnj22487akg.jpg