Hi all! I was curious to confirm when the New York Central began painting their own heavyweight cars two-tone gray. I know in a previous discussion I participated in, it was mentioned that Pullman Cars received the scheme starting around 1948. However, this time around I'm particularly curious about heavyweight cars owned by the NYC only-IE their coaches, RPOs, diners, lounges, etc. The key thing I want to know is if there was a not-insignificant number of heavyweight cars painted in the two-tone scheme before 1953, that were across the system (so just a few select cars painted for a specific name train don't count!). Per this source, heavyweight cars began receiving the two-tone in '53, but the scheme is listed as the "1948 scheme"; it's unclear if this means it was applied in general starting in 1948, which would be a contradiction, or more likely that this was the scheme for new LW cars that arrived in 1948 that was retro-actively applied to HWs in '53.The reasoning behind this is because I'm looking for accurate cars that could go behind a Niagara or Hudson for the year 1950, and if two-tone wasn't a common scheme for heavyweights in 1950, that takes a lot of cars off the market for me. I have a clearer idea of which lightweights I can use, but I know I'll need a heavyweight or two to fill in the gaps and make it a little more believable in my eyes.
If anyone has any insight, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you!
MjorstadThe key thing I want to know is if there was a not-insignificant number of heavyweight cars painted in the two-tone scheme before 1953,
This article states that beginning in 1953, NYC was selecting Air Conditioned heavyweight cars for the two-toned gray scheme:
https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/nycheavyweightcoacharticle.pdf
In that case you wouldn't see any in 1950 and increasing numbers after 1953.
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullman Mjorstad The key thing I want to know is if there was a not-insignificant number of heavyweight cars painted in the two-tone scheme before 1953, This article states that beginning in 1953, NYC was selecting Air Conditioned heavyweight cars for the two-toned gray scheme: https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/nycheavyweightcoacharticle.pdf In that case you wouldn't see any in 1950 and increasing numbers after 1953. Good Luck, Ed
Mjorstad The key thing I want to know is if there was a not-insignificant number of heavyweight cars painted in the two-tone scheme before 1953,
Gotcha-so I take it that un-air conditioned cars stayed in Pullman/Pacemaker green past '53.
This is exactly the info and confirmation I was looking for. Thank you Ed!
-Mitch
I think part of the confusion is you have to remember there were two 'two tone' NYC paint schemes, not one!
When the streamlined version of the 20th Century Limited was introduced in 1938, the cars were painted light gray with a darker gray band through the windows. The streamlined Hudsons were painted to match, as were their early E-units purchased starting in 1945.
https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/twentieth-century-limited-1938-usa-6670041a
Starting in 1948, they reversed the colors so the majority of the car was dark gray, with a light gray band going through the windows. That's the better known 'two tone' version, the one that for example Walthers used in their 20th Century HO train.
https://www.walthers.com/products/name-trains/20th-century-limited
wjstixI think part of the confusion is you have to remember there were two 'two tone' NYC paint schemes, not one!
This link shows an excellent example of an air-conditioned Pressed Steel Car Co. coach that looks like it had recently been painted:
http://abpr.railfan.net/october07/10-22-07/NYC2080on2-22-66JoelShanus.jpg
Harmon, 1966. Note the "sealed" windows and removal of the sash. I have paged through several of my NYC passenger books and have found a few examples of Heavyweight RPOs, Diners and coaches but they were not all that common.
Of course Henry Dreyfus is credited with the 1938 Century painting arrangement, which was modified in 1940 as management thought the look was "too busy".
The Century smoothside cars could also be found on the Commodore Vanderbilt (when the '48 cars came along the '38 cars were "generally" assigned to the Commodore Vanderbily and a few other trains.
The New York Central even considered a two-tone green scheme but, not being very committed to the idea, only one side of two different cars (Cascade Vale and Imperial Palace) were painted this way for a short time in January of 1940. The opposite sides of the cars were painted black.
Then when the 1948 equipment came along there was a simplified gray scheme which also featured black outlining on the stripes and lettering. Later, around 1958 this later scheme was simplified again, eliminating the black edging.
In the 1950-53 period there weren't all that many Heavyweight New York central cars in two-tone gray. Keep in mind the Pullman pool service cars were an identical, or nearly so, paint arrangement to the NYC two-tone so if you have several Pullman sleepers you can certainly go with two-tone gray behind your Niagaras.
As near as I can determine the Pullman two-tone gray pool colors began to show up in 1945.
I like to review the DVDs in my collection for ideas concerning operations. This Herron Video shows several NYC passenger runbys and you can get a good idea of the makeup of trains. You'll see a scattering of two-tone heavyweights.
Unfortunately, the person that uploaded it chose to add YouTube's "smoothing" application and it makes many of the scenes look like they were shot through a Lava Lamp!
I believe this was shot in 1955 or '56. For the most part the "secondary" NYC trains were a motley collection of heavyweights, lots of head-end, with a mix of Budd, P-S smoothside and stainless sheathed cars plus a few off-line through cars, notably U. P.
Overmod wjstix I think part of the confusion is you have to remember there were two 'two tone' NYC paint schemes, not one! But were ang heavyweights, including head-end cars, painted in the light gray?
wjstix I think part of the confusion is you have to remember there were two 'two tone' NYC paint schemes, not one!
But were ang heavyweights, including head-end cars, painted in the light gray?
If they were, it would have been relatively few I think. Before about 1953, NYC seems to have been very careful about using just the two-tone streamlined cars on the Century, and just the stainless steel cars on the Empire State Express. After that it started getting mixed up, and from what I've seen that is when they started repainting the heavyweights into the later two-tone scheme.