I have a few 40' HO gondolas that are perfect for the era I model (specifically 1943) but they need both weight and a realistic load. I'd like to put a load of rail in some of them but I haven't been able to find a photo of 39' ("stick") rail loaded in gondolas. Can anyone point me to appropriate photos?
Or, lacking photos, can anyone remember seeing rail being moved from a rolling mill to a railroad?
According to my calculations, Code 70 rail would be approximately 110 lb/yard or 1,430 lbs for a 39' rail. Based on that and the inside dimensions of the gons I have, a load of 10 rails per level and 5 levels would be a load of 35.75 tons. Would there have been rough lumber (2x4s?) between levels? Would there have been vertical 2x4s (or larger to prevent shifting to the side); I kind of doubt this because even with 2x4s between levels, the top level would still be lower than the top chord of the gondolas I have.
Fifty 39' Code 70 rails would still not be enough weight so I'm planning on making the stacks of rail hollow with full length rails on the top and sides but not the ends. This will allow me to hide sufficient #8 lead shot inside the stack to bring the loaded cars up to the desired weight.
ChuckAllen, TX
Hello All,
Freshly manufactured rails would not be haphazardly dropped into the belly of a gon.
The rails would be bundled with ties between the stacks of rails. This would also factor into the load weight.
In your situation, you could model the cross-ties out of strips of steel weights. This way you can fabricate each load separated from the car(s), allowing you to adjust your desired weight to each load.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Real railroad rail is measured in pounds per yard.
It's about 120 pounds per yard, so 1500 pounds per piece. Ballpark.
If you figure a 50 ton car, then you get maybe 60 pieces of rail on a generic car.
It would be common to be loaded in layers. First you put some "sticks" down, crossways. Then you lay the rails on top of them. You need to keep some space between the rails to allow the lifting cables to fit. So if you figure 9" wide per rail, and 9'-6" interior width, you get 12 rails per layer. 60 divided by 12 is 5 layers.
For adding a layer, you put more "sticks" down, for each one. For railroad rail, I would think the sticks might by 3x6's--whatever it takes to not get crushed.
The height of the load will be about 5 x 7" + 5 x 3" = 50"
All the above is pretty approximate, and pretty reasonable. I don't think anyone will argue with you about it.
A further thing: I believe there might be rail-lift tongs you can hang from your lifting cable. If you use those, you could probably eliminate the extra clearance for the wrap-around cable. So you MIGHT have more rails and less layers.
Ed
Code 70, 83, 100 Is not the same size as 83lb rail. Code 70 is around 110lb/yard rail.
rail is generally moved around via flat car, not gondola. Scrap rail would be gondola but more rare of a movement. ties are usually moved by gondola
Outsailing86 rail is generally moved around via flat car, not gondola.
rail is generally moved around via flat car, not gondola.
Was this true in 1943?
jjdamnitPrototypical code is represented as pounds-per-yard (lb/yd). Hence, Code-70 rail weighs seventy pounds per yard.
Never heard of a "protoypical code" for rail while working in the MoW Dept on NYC and then PC. The NMRA has, for years, published rail size standards as the word "Code" followed by the actual height of the model rail in thousandths of an inch; i.e., Code 70 rail is .070" high, Code 100 is .100" high, Code 83 (the most common in HO) is .083" high, etc.
I have one piece of rail on hand that I intend to use for this project. Before buying more, I measured this piece of rail and found it to be exactly .070" high (I have very good digital calipers.)
Code 70 rail is approximately 6 scale inches high (.07 x 87.1 = 6.097). I found at www.icrr.net/rail.htm, that the American Society of Civil Engineers (A.S.C.E.) says a 6.125" high rail weighs 110 lb/yd while the American Railway Association (A.R.A.) and the American Railway Engineering Association (A.R.E.A.) say a 6" high rail weighs 100 lb/yd. i chose to go with with the slightly higher weight.
Rail could be on flats or in gons. Its really shiftable on a flat, one reason gons were used a lot. It also depends on how its going to unloaded.
If its going to be unloaded by hand then a flat is better. If its going to be unloaded by crane then a gon is better.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
7j43kIt would be common to be loaded in layers. First you put some "sticks" down, crossways. Then you lay the rails on top of them. You need to keep some space between the rails to allow the lifting cables to fit.
This was exactly what I was hoping to hear. Nobody ever accused me of being a soldering expert and I have zero confidence in my ability to solder multiple rails together with only the edges of their bases touching each other. Putting "sticks" as you put it between each layer will allow me to super-glue the bases of the rails to the sticks. Short (1/2") pieces of rail on the ends of lower layers would only be glued to one stick but that should be enough to hold everything in place. (Outside rails on those lower layers will, of course, be a full 39 scale feet long.)
7j43kSo if you figure 9" wide per rail, and 9'-6" interior width, you get 12 rails per layer. 60 divided by 12 is 5 layers.
This would work if all of these dimensions were accurately scaled. However, when I measured the base of my Code 70 rail and the inside dimensions of the cars I have, I found that I'll only be able to get 10 rails on each layer (without making the load a permanent part of the car). As I indicated in my initial post, 5 layers would then weigh 35.75 tons; well within the 40 ton CAPY of the cars I have.
Somebody gave me some brass track, probably code 100, I think just to get rid of it. Being a sorta waste not/want not kinda guy, I stripped the rails out of the tie strips, cut it into 39' lengths, then painted it a rust colour. There are several piles (mostly loose) around the layout, but I did make a gondola load of rail, which travels around my layout in random gondolas every once in a while.It was made for an Ertl 40' low-sided gondola, so is only two levels high...perhaps a small load for a proposed track maintenance job or maybe some rail for a new customer's warehouse siding...
The stickers under each level of rails, and the side stakes are strip styrene painted to look like lumber, and the rails are secured to the dunnage using ca...
While the Ertl car is fairly light, it weighs 5oz. with the rail load, so tracks well.
I make a lot of "fixed" loads (multiple pieces, but all cemented together)...
....and many of them are labelled as to what particular cars they'll fit....
However, scrap loads are loose material, usually made from leftover bits and pieces from detailing projects or scratchbuilds. Anything that's metal goes in some Hobby Black, A-West Blacken It, or some gun-blue. Some scrap loads are stored in boxed gondolas, and some in separate containers, and many are periodically transferred from car-to-car, too.
Some loaded scrap cars might weigh over 8 oz....
...this one's loaded with copper wire stripped from old open frame motors. I "weathered" them by playing the flame of a propane torch over them, to burn-off the shellac/varnish that coated the wire...
...this car has only a partial load, perhaps a clean-up job somewhere, with more to be added at another location (this stuff has been in the blackener, then dried before being placed in the car)...
...another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of "empty" gondolas aren't truly empty...
Wayne
You and I are definitely on the same page when it comes to loading open top cars and weighting for better tracking. While some would consider 8 oz a bit much, I understand; in fact, I have a Selley covered hopper that's only 30'6" long but weighs 7.4 oz without added weight!
The rail load for the Ertil car is close to what I hope to achieve but with a lot less rust weathering -- easier for me to justify an overhead shipment of new rail from the rolling mill to an interchange on the branch line I (hope to) model. My rails will be painted; probably with Rustoleum's Automobile Primer, a flat dark gray that simulates new steel very nicely.
And it pays to check your "stash" every once in a while. Your mention of stripping the ties from some flex track reminded me that I might have some flex track hidden away that I will never use. Voila!! Thank you for saving me some money. I think I have on hand more than enough Code 70 rail for this project.
It's going to take a good bit of rail. I have three fairly low-sided gondolas (from Bachmann?) that need weight and will really look great with rail loads. I suspect the rail by itself won't be quite heavy enough though. If that is the case, I'll build hollow loads like the lumber load you made for your "CSC Flats" and glue #8 lead shot in the hollow.
Your last three photos (of non-empty empties) look great! That's not necessarily dunnage left over from a previous load. My first assignment after I hired out on the NYC was to a yard operations training session at the Livernois Avenue yard in Detroit where I learned early on that any junk found in the "six foot" was to be picked up (before you or someone else tripped over it at night). The junk was then tossed into the closest empty gondola.
Thanks for your input.
Thanks for your comments, Chuck.
With regards to your mention of junk found in the "six foot", here's a partial load that might be even more prototypical than I had originally thought...
Have you priced pallets?
Unless you model pallets that are pretty beat up, it might be more realistic to model a shipment of empty pallets being sent for reuse.
While it looks like most of the stock in this yard is blooms, there is a large stack of rail ready for loading in the mid-foreground:
https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A84.41.58
Seeing the operation may help to give the modeler some ideas. That brick "shed" must have just been finished. It's way too clean!
The New York Central used this color coding for grading stocks of rail:
Rail_NYCS by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
In a picture I clicked on from the above link, it looks like to me that some of the gondolas have angles added to the inside of the sides to keep the loose rail stacked in an somewhat wedge shape. Less rail across the bottom and more rail across towards the top.